my speaker, room or ears suck for 'depth'

[fieldcar]

Nevermind

 

[MaxwellsEq]

You're right, reorienting the listening area is a no go because the fronts also double up for the HT duty, and that has to go on either side of the telly. I'm going towards DIRAC on my PC for room eq, since my source is from PC and I want to use the external DAC. I think DIRAC on receiver would probably mean i can't use my external DAC.

Unfortunately, digital EQ and processing won't fix image depth - it's mostly useful in dealing with room nodes and standing waves.

Quite simply, your speakers look to be too far apart. If it was me. I'd get a smaller, taller console and move the speakers in 30cm or so (from left and right of where they are now). Such a large console itself is probably interfering with the dispersion characteristics of the speakers.

Also, given the amount of space you've got, smaller, bookshelf-sized speakers on stands (or if necessary on the console) would probably work better (with a Sub if you feel it's bass-light).

Although you're space is compromised, you could have an excellent-sounding set-up with a narrower console and smaller speakers on stands...

 

[Thomas_A]

Hm the speakers are 140 cm apart and the distance to the speaker driver axis to listener appears more like 220 cm. That means a too narrow triangle. So speakers need to move out or listenerforward.

Biggest problem is the asymmetry left and right speaker walls. Small suggestions

Try heavy toe in
Use deep blinds for the window
Use soft neck rests for the sofa
Add damping panels directly behind the speakers.
Paintings/decorations on the wall above the sofa.
(Personally I would lower the TV)

 

[boogeroo]

I like how people are just throwing out words left and right.

EQ will not help with this whatsoever, because EQ modifies the direct sound where the depth information already is. If anything it will likely makes things worse for that aspect of the listening experience even though it would help better with other aspects.

The only solution is ample broadband room treatment. The ratio of direct sound to room reflections need to be increased.

I didn't know room eq has down sides, I'm assuming its a function of the aggressiveness of the eq'ing? i.e if the FR is relatively flat, mild eq = less detrimental; and if FR is all over, steep/complex eq = more detrimental?

 

[fieldcar]

Nevermind.

 

[boogeroo]

I believe there is, to some degree, a psychoacoustic thing going on in regard to image depth. If our brains, via our eyes, perceive a large space behind the speakers, it concludes that there is enough space to accommodate musicians behind the speakers. Of course, I have no proof of this other than my own empirical experience.

I was thinking about that, I have a fair understanding on how triangulation work with signals, with 3 omni directional mics you can pinpoint a vector towards the sound within a hemisphere(ignoring the mirror plane) around the 3 mics for wavelengths that are smaller than the distance between the mics, however you can't tell the distance from the sound source because you do not know the signal strength, you can move the 3 mics around seek out the source by looking at the SPL.

Our ears as only 2 mics, if omni-directional would have a whole cylindrical space where the solution lies for any given sound source, i think our ears are somewhat directional so that should cut down the search space for the brain to pinpoint the source. I still fail to see how we can disambiguate distance to source vs loudness of source though, since distance attenuates SPL and well so does a softer sound.

And also how do we with 2 ears, differentiate between sound coming from the front vs the back, i know that if someone walks behind me i very clearly understands the sound is coming from behind me.....i wonder if the brain does some type of sensory fusion with ears/eyes/movement to give your ghost a fuller understanding of where sound is coming from.

Oh well that's the techie in me blabbering...

 

[Tangband]

Recently I bought some test tracks to test out system placement, it has the usual far left/right, mid left/right, centre test tracks of a guy talking, it all makes sense sonically left to right. Then further on there is something called depth, apparently its the distance from the listener or microphone, e.g 8 ft away, 15 ft away from the mic, now this for the life of me doesn't give me cues to distance, rather to me its purely attenuation, I don't sense distance I only hear loudness/softness. Then i went to listen to some music and yeah, left to right placement seems sane, but I don't get a sense of distance of the instrument from the mic, just that one instrument is louder or softer, and it dosen't help that instruments naturally play louder or softer in certain passages....

So do you guys hear 'depth', or its the room messing up the whole thing, maybe i just have leaded ears. I use a Gustard X16->Benchmark AHB2->Quad Z3, i do have an assymmetric room, where the left speaker is near a window, and the right one has no boundary. No room correction if in dedicated stereo, YPAO if run through the HT setup

You need to reinstall the whole system .
The loudspeakers are wrongly setup.

1. You need to reverse the listening place ( the sofa ) and the loudspeakers , so that you have a solid wall everywhere behind your speaker .

2. Put away the acoustic damping material you have on the walls - use diffusion material instead .

3. The perceived stereo according depth of image is in two channel recordings only an illusion . Its not there for real . You need to use your walls to create a good illusion .
Optimal delayed first sidewall reflections to the listeningposition are about 20-25 ms. Unfortunately your room is very difficult .

4. The source player you have may have issues in the sound . If you use a Windows machine to your Gustard dac it must have a correct set up .
Read more here :

Ending the Windows Audio Quality Debate

A debate has been long raging in the audio community that Windows isn't fit for use in a high resolution audio system. Sceptics counterargued that bits are bits and Windows audio degradations are a figment of an over-active audiophile imagination. I decided to investigate this as I kept...

www.audiosciencereview.com

5. After this is done , try use a good roomcorrection ( Dirac or such ) with eq , not audysseus .

 

[Dumdum]

Sorry but eq does help to fix depth in asymmetric environments to a degree, if the response of the speakers is off due to reflections and where the speakers information is minimum phase then eq corrects the phase, and when speakers are in phase that’s when you get better depth perception as the drivers melt away and you don’t hear them any more

As for the room I’d definitely be reversing it, and putting the sofa where the speakers are and pulling both speakers into the centre space of the wall… rather than at each end nearest the window and corner…

Make reflections later than 6msec if possible and pull them out a foot or so from the wall