My Problem With Inexpensive Electronics

[Bob-23]

After all, we're also talking about precious natural ressources and we might appreciate the human labor that's materialized in our products.
And about mountains of waste.

 

[Universal Cereal Bus]

<rant>I don’t understand the need for a dozen or more wash and dry cycles and Wi-Fi. Why the eff does anyone need Wi-Fi on a washer or dryer. Someone needs to make a washer that just effing washes clothes and a dryer that just dries them. I don’t need or want to pay for all these fancy “features” I’ll never effing use.</rant>

By "cycle", I think you mean "program". Wash, rinse, and spin are cycles; normal, delicate, bedding, perm press, etc. (+ half-dozen more) are programs.

Semantics aside, I think the multitude of wash/dry programs may be an element of engineering the human factor of the consumer product. Quick personal story: we have a Samsung front load washer that doesn't spin well. It starts to spin up, shakes violently, trips a sensor and resets the program to the rinse cycle. I'm pretty sure we, the users, are 50% at fault here because we're busy parents and just toss everything in without separating laundry types, which is a no-no in the user manual.

The other day, after manually aborting the spin cycle and pulling out a single heavy cotton towel that imbalanced the load, I finally noticed the "towel" program on the dial. It dawned on me that the engineers of this washer couldn't build a device that could detect an improper load (one big towel plus many small light items) and the accountants couldn't over-build a device strong enough to spin an imbalanced load. So they added super specific programs that would force the obedient user (RTFM) to solve this problem on their own. Thus, human-factors engineering.

 

[Eurasian]

My father has an International Harvester refrigerator my parents bought when they got married in 1957. I think they even bought it used. It has never been serviced and is still running perfectly today. It stays so cold he has to keep it on the warmest setting and it’ll still freeze stuff too close to the freezer section. It’s been the beer fridge in the garage for as long as I can remember.

Martin

My wife and I got a 1954 Chrysler fridge when we bought our first house in 1984. It worked for another 20 years without any service. We loved that the freezer was on the bottom and that the fridge shelves would rotate about a pole on the hinge side so you could get to the stuff at the back without having to rearrange things. What a great feature!

 

[Wes]

I think any failure in what we use is stressful and cheap and easily solutions rarely exist. Our German dishwasher failed. It cost $600 to repair it that involved replacing a $20 part. They would even refuse to come to our house saying we were outside of their service area! This is a nearly $3,000 dishwasher which they happily sold us without saying they wouldn't want to service it. We have a second dishwasher from the same brand that cost $1000 and the service tech declared it instantly as not fixable and go get a new one! New one with install costs $1,500. We have barely used the broken one.

Our Samsung TV died. Everyone else would throw it out but I went through hell repairing it. Got a replacement board that was more faulty than the one I had. Of course picture quality is nowhere as good as new units so I wonder why I spent the time.

Have a POE switch that failed. Simple power supply problem but with surface mount parts, no way to repair it. Was just out of warranty. Did I want the hassle of sending back to them for repair even though they are in US? Nope. Bought another from Amazon.

Have emissions sensors failing in our Mercedes van. Thankfully they have extended warranty on it but otherwise would cost a few thousand dollars! And the problem is common as dirt. Took nearly two weeks just to get a hold of the local dealer and convince them to repair it. They then said it would be nearly a month before they could take it in!

In all the gear I have tested, I have had two failures: a Sony AVR and Devialet. Devialet actually had to go back to France. The Sony was $99 so not even worth bothering with warranty repair.

So I don't know that there is a good solution here. The days of a simple fuse going bad is long gone from our electronics....

Germans don't have a very good understanding of electronics, or even electricity. This obvious to those who have 1960s Porsches, much less newer German cars.

The Japanese make exemplary electronic products.

I'd never buy a new German car - lease only.

The solution for the Topping fear of ship back issue in the OP is to buy 2 and keep one as a spare.

 

[StefaanE]

Germans don't have a very good understanding of electronics, or even electricity.

All generalisations, including this one, are dangerous .

 

[win]

I would just like to say that I'd love to have wifi on my washer and drier. I never hear them turn off, and I could get through the laundry much faster if I was notified when they were finished cycles.

 

[LTig]

Germans don't have a very good understanding of electronics, or even electricity.

You may lookup the history of Siemens & Halske.

 

[JeffS7444]

I'd like to recommend checking out the documentary Manufactured Landscapes: It's visually beautiful, in a way that's sometimes awful too.

I think the problem isn't that electronics are too inexpensive (unless they're shoddily made or subsidized by a service provider, which can be it's own can of worms) but that the low purchase prices can tempt us into thoughtless consumerism.

 

[Vini darko]

The tital changed .

 

[Vini darko]

Did the topping faithful threaten a lynching?

 

[Martin]

Did the topping faithful threaten a lynching?

I decided to change the title without anyone asking, other than some of the posts in this thread. I felt Topping could have been replaced with SMSL, Gustard, Yulong or any number of other manufacturers. So I made it generic.

Martin

 

[gene_stl]

One thing that nobody has mentioned in this very relevant thread is when manufacturer's engineer failure into items to increase their revenue streams. I repair scientific gear at a University. The older something is the more likely I am to be able to repair it. The very newest gear always makes me look bad. In one lab there is a gadget called a "SpeedVac" which we had one from the seventies and when the freon leaked out I recharged it and repaired the very slow leak. Then we got a new building and the old one was given to the Physics dept and a new one bought. The new one has a computer board that won't accept commands. It looks unused but is worthless. The new computer board is about 40% of the cost of a whole new machine. I also don't care to extricate the board from the new style piece. ThermoFisher has bought up ALL the manufacturer's of scientific gear and their service department is terrible and a rip off.

My university loves me because when I can , I even do board level repairs. But this is becoming more and more a rare occurence. Between Switching Mode Power Supplies that cease to start for no apparent reason, to bad connections caused by ROHS (removal of hazardous substances ie LEAD!) lead free soldering, or surface mount and extreme density electronic connections, some things just are not repairable.

I have to add that I will NEVER EVER buy anything built by Whirlpool. I moved into a house four years ago. The sellers first real estate agent said "you have to replace those old appliances with new!" So they replaced what were probably high end but ten year old appliances that were working with a suite of Whirlpool Stainless Steel appliances that were undoubtedly not very cheap. First the dishwasher had a $350 computer board go out after less than one year. The refrigerator has had plastic shelves break and has developed a leak in the ice maker. The microwave has made some very scary noises that it shouldn't make and the gas stove has broken all its valve knobs which cost $130 for four. Before I bought the house I saw some of the old appliances in the garage and I wish they would have left them.

One of MY pet peeves is scientific gear and appliances that used to have a mechanical timer and now have some damn electronic controller. And speed controls that used to be a big ceramic rheostat and are now a computer controlled triac rather than a pot controlled triac. And the best is when both these things are in a little stirring hotplate with the computer board right next to the heating element. What could possibly go wrong. Since the whole stirring hotplate is only about $150 since there is lots of competition on price , they don't sell parts. The control board is all microscopic surface mount.

One of my favorites is a $25,000 Zeiss stereo photo microscope. They keep parts for ten years. It's ALL computer controlled and surface mount. The computer and stepper motors allow the optics to do tricks you can't do with a mechanical zoom and focusing mount. I don't know about you but if I paid that kind of money (and more too) for a scope and they said it was not fixable I would never buy that brand again. Of course ALL the microscope companies source their entry level stuff in the far east. Only Zeiss makes anything in Chermany anymore. Wild and Leitz are long gone. "Leica" microscopes are built in the Phillipines or India.

I am going to stop now but this is a topic I can rant on for a very long time. Btw my Samsung washer dryer pair which are way too smart, were fun to watch when we first got them because they were so smart. But very quickly the washer began to throw an error code for no reason. Fortunately it is only a minor inconvenience.

At work I repaired a Whirlpool built "Maytag" washer, carefully selected by the Textiles professor for her student studio. It too had a beautifully built computer board. It had elaborate error codes and a diagnostic mode. It passed its diagnostic tests perfectly and threw some unrelated codes. But it REFUSED to wash, instead quitting. After a great deal of aggravating testing I replaced the computer board and now it runs fine again. It has a sticker on it that says "Ten Year Warranty" which turns out to only apply to the Stainless Steel Tub. It was a year old when it began acting up and Whirlpool offered ZERO help.

One of the tricks I do for the university is that if I can't fix something I try to twist the manufacturer's arm to help us out, which I bat about .500 at.
Certain cases like this one though are memorable in how angry I get with the manufacturer.

 

[Vini darko]

It's only going to get worse this century. Once we figure out the next level of miniaturization.
Edit: the toaster from red dwarf is closer than we fear.

 

[MarsianC#]

Edit: the toaster from red dwarf is closer than we fear.

Oh, I like that one

 

[andreasmaaan]

Edit: the toaster from red dwarf is closer than we fear.

Our appliances don't talk, but like the Red Dwarf talking toaster, their misplaced sense of self-importance does annoy the absolute shit out of us.

Once its job is done, the microwave beeps loudly every 30 seconds, ad infinitum, until the door is opened and the heated contents removed. "Come appreciate my work, come take this food which has been heated and which is safely sitting here unattended and could stay so indefinitely, come do it immediately or I will relentlessly beep at you and remind you of the affront I feel at the low esteem you seem to hold me in."

And the induction stovetop is similar. It won't tolerate the slightest hint of moisture around its control console, piercingly, relentlessly beeping until it has been towelled down to the point of being absolutely dry, even if it's not in use in the first place. A real little misanthrope.

The sad thing is that both have perfectly succeeded in operantly conditioning us. After an abortive rebellious phase in the first 6 months or so in which I attempted to ignore these rabid little self-important appliances on principle, I now literally drop whatever I'm doing immediately whenever the microwave is a few seconds off finished, or I'm washing the dishes and flick a drop or two in the direction of the stove.

Why do they make them like this? Why weren't we warned of these features before deciding to purchase and install these devices?

 

[JeffS7444]

My parents shunned gadgetry for fear that it would break. I am starting to shun gadgetry because while there may be "An app for that" doesn't mean that there should be. Nope, not buying Revolution's toaster even if it is technically IoT-free (unless the "I" stands for Idiocy, of which it's well-equipped).
https://www.revcook.com/
If this is "Smart", give me stupid! Stupid is the new Smart!

 

[dmac6419]

The electric dryer in my parents house is from the late 70's early 80's I think the only thing that been changed was the belt,next time I visit I'll let y'all know the brand
Update dryer brand is GE general electric

 

[amirm]

As a german please let me say a word about Miele. Self we use a Miele washer (21 years old), vacuum cleaner (22 years), dryer (13 years) and dishwasher (3 years). Yes, they are pricey and not ever lasting error free, but most repairable. Cause of high serviceman costs I buy in case of a defect the spare parts self and make the maintence as DIY job.

The faulty dishwashers I talked about are Miele. Ours has had fair number of issues. First its auto-close solenoid went bad. Paid something like $250 for the part from Miele even though the fault was a $30 German motor. Then the front panel went bad. Bought one used on ebay as new it was hundreds of dollars since the stupid thing is glued to the whole front facia! And then the final failure of it leaking and its safety feature for that kicking in. I took it all apart which was a pain in the neck. It was such a pain that I paid the repair guy to put it back together.

The biggest hassle is that whenever I search for parts I see them on sale from UK and Germany but none in US. So other than sourcing used parts, there is no option here like you have in Europe.

 

[raif71]

The tital changed .

 

[MRC01]

... Engines now hold only 100.000 miles, sometimes only 50.000 miles without defects, cause of coke and dirt in the intake manifold. Thats very odd.

It's not that odd. In days of yore, engine crankcases were vented to atmosphere. This kept intake manifolds spotlessly clean, but polluted the atmosphere. PCV was introduced to route the crankcase breather vent to the intake manifold. This keeps the atmosphere clean, forcing the engine to burn the polluted vapor venting from the crankcase. But even with PCV, intake manifolds still stayed nice and clean. Why? Because fuel is an excellent solvent and the fuel vapor (whether carbureted or fuel injected) was introduced in the intake manifold.

Fast forward a few years to direct injection, where the fuel is injected through the cylinder walls (or through a separate port in the cylinder head), not passing through, but bypassing, the intake valve. This enables fuel timing independent of intake valve timing, which improves efficiency and power. Now there is only air, no fuel, flowing through the intake manifold and valve. This means the entire intake manifold is "dry". There is nothing (no fuel) to keep the intake manifold clean, and the polluted vaporous gunk from the crankcase PCV gradually builds up in the intake manifold.