My Problem With Inexpensive Electronics

[David Harper]

You could say the same thing about literacy as computers. Intelligent illiterate adults have remarkable memory. I once worked with a couple functionally illiterate mechanics who had memorized hundreds of torque specs. Literally everything on the top decks of two models of medium lift helicopter.[/QUOT

Education has nothing to do with intelligence

 

[TimF]

Ford Falcon AU II. Simca 1000. Toowoomba range. SKODA Felicia. Driving in the left traffic lanes. Hong Kong drivers stick to the left lanes while mainland drivers stick to the right. In Australia is the BIG volume knob on the left side of the panel? Amazing the globalization of products and the standardization world-wide, and the magnitude of production for popular products. Everyone reading this has a cell phone. In 1940, the world population was estimated at 2.3 billion (humans), and now it about 7.8 b. The rate of change in most human communities during that period 1940 - 2021, and product cycling, must have been by far greater than at any time of the human era on earth. I want to hear more about Australia. And about China, and Spain and all the other places. Sometimes audio products were just fun to play around with regardless of cost. Oh, how sweet was some of the music that it expressed so much of the soul.

 

[David Harper]

While I can attest to the stupidity of some of the IoT implementations in the most unnecessary things, that doesn't quite have much baring on "things lasting long". In fact, electronic components which are now heavily commoditized, and virutally solid-state compared to mechanically functioning items, actually can be made to last longer than said mechanical devices. Mechanical devices have more points of failure (case and point being something like hard drives versus solid state drives). Less moving parts, less failure prone.

Also, the failure rates of many mainstream cost-optimized devices is one-part the fault of demand (tell me how many people you know who would be willing to buy an iPhone that lasts 10+ years, but also willing to pay something like $5,000 for it). Considerations for items lasting long are almost completely ignored in the mainstream sector of products. The second problem, is you have planned and intrinsic obsolescence (after the Industrial Revolution, economists along with businesses realized, supply has forever planted itself above demand, and we can never go back). In order for a company to sell something like a $500 computer-like phone (in functionality), and also turn a profit while competing with other companies, they need to control exactly how long a device lasts (before, this entailed using inferior materials that were known to degrade at a certain point, requiring users to repair the device at the company's repair centers). This level of earning wasn't enough, so they started making devices that would fail catastrophically and need complete replacement. Now you have software and firmware driven expiration dates further compounding the issue (Apple being one such company that all others can only dream of, with their near-complete grip over the complete operation from distribution, to manufacturing, to hardware and software controls).

People can make devices last longer than any of the bygone era devices we look back with nostalgia thinking they were devices that can never be surpassed in terms of durability. Our material sciences and engineering prowess has exploded that would make surpassing those older devices trivial. It's simply that in order to be a manufacturer these days, you have to compete on a global level, and if you're competing on a global level, you have to implement cost-savings for fiduciary responsibility of shareholders. And if a single company that's competing in the same industry as you does something like create devices that purposefully fail at a certain date to make people buy newer devices - you either must follow suit, or you'll be surpassed.



I don't get it.. Access to information in a packaged and quickly absorbable form is precisely the sort of psychological predisposition we have as living sentient creatures.

Silly notion, it would be like cavemen complaining about hammers being the worst thing ever, because using rocks required more skill to master nailing nails to a board. Computers have shifted learning priorities, letting people focus on things that they want to persue. It would be like saying "computers made us dumber, we should have stayed in jungles and plains, at least there we had things that made us smarter, like learning how to make a fire, or hunt animals ourselves, instead of being in air conditioned homes that make us lazier and fatter". Looking at a phone all day seems like something a normal person would do if given the option. People on public transportation for example today would be odd if they found more pleasure in staring at the walls of the vehicle compared to someone entertaining themselves with a phone, or getting some work done/prepared.

I'm really not sure how people are getting dumber looking at their phones (if anything, they're getting smarter). Or do you posit that walking around looking at the sky and road to work every single day is more productive and mentally constructive?




Yeah, who would naturally care to recall phone numbers of people when there are speed dial lists? It would be like saying "We don't remember how to cook food consistently anymore, it's all measured and written as notes on a piece of paper instead now". How does that make it a bad thing exactly? Because our memory isn't being trained or something? Who would want to train their memory with phone numbers anyway? What value is there to this?



This example is even worse. I fail completely to see what the problem is here? You'd have to be insane not to prefer GPS (better in virtually every single way when available). GPS makes use of maps, and if anything with the way GPS functions now, it's far more up-to-date than any printed map could be..



Why would anyone waste their time trying to manually long-divide things for example? Again, I'm failing to see what exactly is the problem here. I'd understand if you said, we should at least know how to do certain math operations in case we don't have calculators in a certain area. But to not use calculators when they're at your disposal, this seems like an insane notion especially concerning more complex operations that require half a page or more to solve for..

Or were you talking about children that don't know how to multiply single digit integers? Because if it's that, I don't know what school would allow calculators for such basic required knowledge.

I don't get it..

You make my point for me. Dare to be stupid. Proud to be a fool.

 

[raistlin65]

Too much computer bullshit in modern appliances. Back in the day appliances were just mostly mechanical. They lasted forever.
Computers may be the worst thing that ever happened. They're making us all dumber. People walk around looking at their phone all day.
examples;
We don't remember phone #'s anymore because they're all on the speed-dial list
We don't know how we're getting to where we're driving because we're using GPS instead of looking at a map.
We don't do math anymore the calculator does it for us.

Almost anything is bad for you if you only look for negative attributes about how it might change your behavior (although I certainly disagree with the idea that remembering phone numbers made my life better). Breathing is bad if you start doing it underwater. lol

I think I'm a lot smarter due to my ability to access the Internet with all of the things that I have easily learned.

And most importantly, without the Internet, the audiophile snake oil that began running amok in the 1980s and early 90s would be much more dominant than it is today. Can you imagine if Stereophile and What HiFi? and other audio publications, as well as audio sales people, were still the primary sources of information?

 

[raistlin65]

Education has nothing to do with intelligence

I would restate that as education is not the only means to develop intelligence.

After all, education can teach critical thinking skills, which are a form of intelligence. But people can learn critical thinking skills outside of education, too.

 

[Helicopter]

Education has nothing to do with intelligence

Wut?

There is certainly a broad correlation, but yeah, intelligence doesn't cause education or literacy.

That is why I specifically refer to "intelligent illiterate" in my post.

The whole point is that illiterate remember stuff better than literate if you control for inteligence, but literacy is still obviously worthwhile and beneficial.

 

[BostonJack]

I'm the proud owner of a D10 which has behaved flawlessly for 3 years. Original cost $72.
That is one good dinner out and a couple of drinks.

I guess this puts me in the "engineering excellence + inexpensive" camp. engineering excellence, cheap, guaranteed long term reliability (meh)

I wonder if there really is evidence that Topping's lower cost offerings are less reliable than average audiophile gear.

[I had custom balanced cables made for my HD650's: $80. Paid more for wires and connectors than for a sophisticated DAC.]

 

[mhardy6647]

That is one good dinner out and a couple of drinks.

... and we all know what happens to that (those) after about six hours.

Sorry... somebody was gonna go there... so I figure it might as well be me (bein' the local biologist and all).

 

[StefaanE]

(Apple being one such company that all others can only dream of, with their near-complete grip over the complete operation from distribution, to manufacturing, to hardware and software controls).

Actually, compared to the Android competition, Apple devices are remarkably long-living. My 12.9” iPad is 4 years old, in excellent nick (even the battery) and still fully updated. My iPhone 8Plus is 3 years old, and going strong. My wife’s Google/LG Nexus OTOH stopped receiving updates 3 years after the model was launched, even though it was only 2 years old.

 

[EJ3]

I've seen such quasi-Luddites statements and positions, my entire life.. In the 70's cars made in the 50's were the best ... Same in the 80's for cars made in the 60's ...
Thing is: Modern cars last longer with less maintenance. You no longer have to measure the gap in spark plugs or distributors and tuning carburetors with multiple screws ... You just drive the cars for hundred of thousands of miles... Cars go over 100,000 miles with not an issue or people even thinking about them
Better recheck that on the longevity of cars: the level of maintenance has gone down somewhat. These last few years (with the advent of direct injection) the longevity (if you are like me & put 300K or more on one before deeming it time for someone else to have it), has gone down.
My 72 Ford Mustang with a 351 Cleveland was quite reliable (especially after I changed from the original points ignition system to a GM HEI headed Cleveland shaft electronic distributor, getting modern mileage out of spark plugs, getting 315 HP at the rear wheels & about 15% better economy than originally). Once I adjusted the carb and distributor timing, they did not need to be adjusted again. Sold it for $25K with 300K miles. Similar experiences with (after converting all of the ignition systems to electronics) 1971 VW Beetle Twin Weber 40IDF carbs, 105 HP, 31 MPG; 1 1978 Pontiac Trans AM; 2 1979 Pontiac Trans Am's (the 4 speed manual shift one made 473 HP, met 1982 emissions specs for CA [without the catalytic convertors] and got 21.7 MPG (19 city); 1982 Chev Caprice (HP unknown) 19-21 MPG. All of these saw 220K miles or more before I sold them in good to very good condition. Only the 72 Mustang was at the point of needing an engine rebuild (some very light blue exhaust smoke that could only be seen in darkness if you were driving close behind it). I always wanted to convert to fully adjustable computer controlled Fuel injection that also controlled the spark, but the pay off of the additional fuel economy was always too long (until recently). For someone else, I was involved with a 1969 Pontiac Firebird that used a 1971 Pontiac 455 engine and met 1996 CA new car emissions with a carburetor (including evaporative emissions) but was not allowed to be registered in CA because it no longer had the "air pump" (required to pass the "visual" part of the emissions testing). Basically the government saying "we don't care that you met and beat the standards for the cars date of manufacture because you did not do it the way we prescribe for it to be done". The car was registered in Arizona.
But, today I drive a (bought new) 2012 Lexus that only has 20K on it, a 2000 Nissan Frontier Truck (4 cylinder with 170 HP [due to my tuning], 181K miles & gets 20-21 MPG). Maybe next year I'll get around to doing computer controlled FI & Ignition on a pre 79 engine.

 

[EJ3]

Actually, compared to the Android competition, Apple devices are remarkably long-living. My 12.9” iPad is 4 years old, in excellent nick (even the battery) and still fully updated. My iPhone 8Plus is 3 years old, and going strong. My wife’s Google/LG Nexus OTOH stopped receiving updates 3 years after the model was launched, even though it was only 2 years old.

I'll join you in some long life computerized things: nothing ever went wrong (other than me replacing batteries in ones that were said to be "not user replaceable") with any of my cell phones that did not involve them being physically damaged (ex.: run over by a car), or stolen. My current laptop, bought new, a 2011 DELL studio XPS (Intel Core i7 940XM [quad core] @ 3.86Ghz, 8GB DDR3 @ 665 MHz, 1TB Samsung SSD 840 EVO (SATA (SSD) with a MATSHITA BD-RE UJ235A internal optical drive (records & plays CD's, DVD's & plays Blu Ray's from it's HDMI interface. Works great (plugged in): battery life is no longer very good.

 

[EJ3]

All you chaps with new-fangled audio and computing gear, let alone everything else

My main system has a German direct drive turntable (automatic too) and US made cartridge (late 70's) pre-power from the early 70's which is proudly US made for the pro market as well as the domestic one (still measures up well if Ken Rockwell is to be believed) although the controls are getting tetchy
In this case, Mr. Rockwell is correct. That pre that you are talking about: I have 2 (both redone), one done by one of the original chief technicians for that company (everything done to just under the max prototype step just before Tomlinson Holman was scooped up by Lucas Films) and 1 with those mods and some additional mods by an independent that seem to have a synergy with the first mods. My system setup uses both of my APT/Holman preamps simultaneously (and they can also do quad) Both these people are still available to do this work. I also have a Bluetooth receiver hooked into one of their tape monitors that works excellently. I am also the person that submitted the NAD 2200 to Amir for testing. With that, you can see the result of the type of thing that I have commissioned. (and the person who did the work on that is the second person I mention about "additional mods" to the APT/Holman Pre. Everything works wonderfully with them. If you are interested in more info, contact me through the inbox.

 

[EJ3]

Education has nothing to do with intelligence

I mostly agree that "formal education" has little to do with intelligence (aside from the fact that if you are not intelligent, education will likely be of not much use to you). If you are driven to do things and get things done, like my father who joined into WWII when he was 16-17 as a merchant marine, then he was drafted into the ARMY, who then wanted to put him into officers school. But he quit and became quite successful starting his own division of his father's Plumbing, Heating and Air Conditioning business. He became president of a number of organizations, was on the state board of examiners for Plumbing, Heating and AC license testing, was a Vice President of The Merchant Marine Veterans of WWII organization and he obtained his High School diploma when he was in his late 70's.
I also have a contemporary friend (whom I grew up with) who quit high school at the age of 14, became a millionaire at the age of 45 through inventing things for airplanes, retired. And 25 years later works in the Jet Propulsion laboratory of a major airline manufacturer, who enticed him out of retirement.
For me: acquiring a business degree was a waste of time that actually held me back. It did not teach me much that I did not already know (although it did expose me to some other areas that I became interested in). I cannot say that it ever helped my career in any concrete way. If you are intelligent and driven, you will self educate with what you need to succeed to the level you want to be at. But a ridged collage/university formal education is not necessarily a good thing. As they (whoever they is): "Your mileage may vary".

 

[RayDunzl]

Here's an example: approximately as old as I am, and in considerably better working order.

P1020749 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

Just felt like lobbing that grenade in here, apropos of nothing!

Dad (and I helped, sort of) built one of those on the dining room table in 1961 or so, and it survived for twelve years, until a surprise and totally unexpected rain came through the window upon it and it let the smoke out.

I don't remember having any complaints or any thought that it was deficient in any way. I've considered getting one for grins (still have the manuals for it).

 

[RayDunzl]

Too much computer bullshit in modern appliances. Back in the day appliances were just mostly mechanical. They lasted forever

So, where are they?

 

[Tks]

Actually, compared to the Android competition, Apple devices are remarkably long-living. My 12.9” iPad is 4 years old, in excellent nick (even the battery) and still fully updated. My iPhone 8Plus is 3 years old, and going strong. My wife’s Google/LG Nexus OTOH stopped receiving updates 3 years after the model was launched, even though it was only 2 years old.

Sure, that's a defining feature (5 year software support). The hardware, not so much. But also, the software support of a 5 year gate is completely artificial, there's no reason why it couldn't be far longer in reality (prior there was the excuse for 64-bit OS only being offered, now, there's not much excuse at all).

You make my point for me. Dare to be stupid. Proud to be a fool.

So that's it, that's all I can look forward to as a retort? For someone preaching about how people don't think much, or only do a certain thing with tunnel vision, you sure are brief with your machinations in this instance it seems.

 

[RayDunzl]

There is a real diminishment in the availability of people who can do things in the three-dimensional world, and this seems to be a generational thing.

I replaced the 17 y/o water heater here today. For some unknown reason it stopped emitting more than a few ounces of water, unless you waited a while, then it would do it again. I stared at it a while, and couldn't figure out any disassembly that could be performed, so got a new one.

It was $329.

I could have gotten one of the same brand (Rheem) with alarms and LED status lights and leak detectors and programmable operation and WI/FI reporting and remote control ($1300), but, no.

The home builder install (2004) was a bunch of glued together CPVC that had to be cut out in any case, I replaced all that with proper removeable fittings, so that if I have to do it again in 17 years when I'm 84 it will only take about an hour instead of most all day.

I have hot water available again, that's a good thing, since I don't like cold showers in February.

 

[richard12511]

Education has nothing to do with intelligence

That's not true. Absolutes are almost never correct .

 

[mhardy6647]

Dad (and I helped, sort of) built one of those on the dining room table in 1961 or so, and it survived for twelve years, until a surprise and totally unexpected rain came through the window upon it and it let the smoke out.

I don't remember having any complaints or any thought that it was deficient in any way. I've considered getting one for grins (still have the manuals for it).

Great story! Thanks for sharing it.

The HF-81 was and is a dandy little stereo amplifier with nothing to be ashamed of. My father was an inveterate EICO fan and I grew up listening to HF-12s (the HF-12 is essentially half of an HF-81 - mono integrated PP EL84) and an HFT-90 tuner. I still have the tuner. An HF-12 met a similar, ignominous fate to your HF-81 and is long gone

Heyboer made the original power transformers for these amplfiers and is still around. Better yet, they'll gladly make a slightly uprated (beefier) PT for the HF81 that's a bit better for today's higher AC mains voltages in the US, at a very reasonable price. I have one in stock in the basement for the HF-81 pictured earlier, just in case.

 

[A Surfer]

Actually, compared to the Android competition, Apple devices are remarkably long-living. My 12.9” iPad is 4 years old, in excellent nick (even the battery) and still fully updated. My iPhone 8Plus is 3 years old, and going strong. My wife’s Google/LG Nexus OTOH stopped receiving updates 3 years after the model was launched, even though it was only 2 years old.

A sample of one is not compelling evidence at all. Do older Apple devices receive updates? At one point do updates stop or are functionally unable to run on the older hardware? My father is still running an LG G4 and it is running like a dream. Not for power users of course, but not receiving updates is not the same thing as not functional. I could never buy into Apple gear simply because of the cult like Apple Ecosystem business model. I get the design and user interface appeal with Apple, but that still is nowhere near enough of a compelling reason for me to pay a premium to potentially get absorbed into the Apple Borg. Imagine willingly agreeing to needing iTunes to perform so many tasks?

Does Apple even have the respect to include support for adding in additional SD storage yet? I know that up until very recently they didn't because they know damn well people will feel forced to upgrade more frequently as they run out of room. At least with many if not the majority of Android phones we can add extra storage. Heck my dad's G4 still has a user removeable battery.