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My Predictions Of The Future AVR

TimF

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Why so big? Except for the speaker terminals which really could be made smaller if we put out minds to it, the thing in the near future need only be as big a a pack of cigarettes. Do you remember what a pack of cigarettes is? Have you seen how small the 300B is these days?
 
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DonR

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My complaint is the makers, mostly from one company, are leveraging via mass production the profit from making mediocre barely good enough gear. In concert with the always something new format introductions they keep churning for profit. In a way I get it, what is the use in spending more for extra quality you can enjoy for many years with better performance when you'll need new capabilities in less than 5 years?
Not sure how much profit there is AVRs anymore but I agree the quality has gone downhill over the last decade. My Denon was one of the last Japanese-made ones (of the mainstream models) and it seems to be a cut above many of the replacement models that came later on. I am an advocate of pre/pros as they allow you to choose your amp to match your speaker or even use powered speakers. Only need stereo? Just buy a stereo amp. If the format changes, you can keep using your amp(s). Unfortunately, I see the future as speakerbars. :facepalm: ... probably with a built-in ultra short throw projector.
 

dlaloum

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Not sure how much profit there is AVRs anymore but I agree the quality has gone downhill over the last decade. My Denon was one of the last Japanese-made ones (of the mainstream models) and it seems to be a cut above many of the replacement models that came later on. I am an advocate of pre/pros as they allow you to choose your amp to match your speaker or even use powered speakers. Only need stereo? Just buy a stereo amp. If the format changes, you can keep using your amp(s). Unfortunately, I see the future as speakerbars. :facepalm: ... probably with a built-in ultra short throw projector.
Not convinced about the projector - with developments in direct emission screens, 85" screens will be mainstream in the next year or two, and 100" screens will be reasonably priced soon (2 to 3 years) thereafter.

Those who once spent $3000 on a projector + $1000 on a screen, will instead go for a big direct screen.

The projectors are still at under 3000lumens - and cannot compete in typical living spaces - they work primarily in light controlled areas... you would need projectors capable of double the light output - and that hasn't been happening (and shows no signs of happening).

So the big wall screens will soon shift from projection to OLED / QLED etc...
 

Galliardist

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I guess my prediction is too radical?
Nowhere near radical enough.
There needs to be a from the ground up re imagining of multichannel audio and AV - or maybe a halt called to the continual innovation that leaves equipment out of date sometimes within months.

Think just about the process of dealing with streaming video in the future. We already have multiple screen sizes, different HDR standards, different audio standards from mono through to multichannel with height information, research going into other audio standards, to say nothing of streaming through phones and tablets and maybe different software because of different streaming apps themselves. Lots of complexity, and you are probably paying several times over for similar software, licences for the formats on multiple devices, there are multiple computers repeating upscaling and downscaling and format conversions. Then someone moves your favourite programme onto a new streaming platform and you have to add that in as well. That's before we consider disc playback, audio only streaming, gaming, and (cough) terrestrial broadcasting.

Then all of that is likely to have to run as well in a domestic living room as in a specialised room or environment. Cabling becomes hell (unless you can wirelessly charge speakers at a distance as well as send wireless sound on each channel). Imagine trying to do height speakers in a rental place. You can see why companies prefer soundbars where they can do everything in one place, even if they don't work that well.

I'm not sure what that future is, but I guess is starts with the software/firmware, the part that keeps needing to be changed and upgraded to keep up. I'm pretty sure we need modularity as well. I'd also like to see specialised surround music be embraced as a core activity in all this. And I'd like to see systems that allow us to buy what we need/want and no more.
 

valerianf

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May questions are unanswered:
Does it need any video connection?
Does it need any overlay menu?
Does it need any streaming capability?

It could be just an audio black box with a Dsp if the power amplification is separated.
In that case the Hdmi to the TV needs to be replaced with a new standard dedicated only for an audio link.
 

Atanasi

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In that case the Hdmi to the TV needs to be replaced with a new standard dedicated only for an audio link.
HDMI is probably good enough and couldn't be replaced due to network effects. HDMI eARC carries most audio formats.
 

Mnyb

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Using the tv as the hdmi switch is exactly what you not want to do , an awkward bunch of cables at your wall to the tv ?

Also even if it starts clean , a smart tv will for example not be smart for long , it will appear boxes and things all around . I think 3-4 of or things can do Netflix including the tv itself , buts it’s more convenient to use the Apple TV as much as possible.
 

Mnyb

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If one is allowed to fantasy :) I would like a standardised audiovisual network protocol for home use wired and wireless including active speakers tv and sources computers game consoles etc etc . It would even carry correction curves to send to your active speakers etc

There will ofcourse always be an audiophile wondering if it plays DSD or where to put the tubes :eek:o_O
 

FrantzM

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The usual AV companies are being bulldozed by Big Tech. They've lost the war. At the same time, Big Tech is not that clear in what direction they want to take AV. Apple will produce a superb speaker, the original HomePod , I believe and remove it from the line up with no clear strategy.. Amazon would or has done the same, oogle produce the wonderful chromecast and it is no longer ... Samsung, a big tech , albeit of a different nationality or perhaps philosophy, acquired Harman and .... well... yeah.. JBL is still at its devices, making spectacular products that no one can find or know about and ... no one knows what they will come up with ... and when .. so .. The usual crapshoot... The Japanese bigs are getting smaller , scattered and acquired. Sony is a shell of its former shelf, Pioneer, Panasonic, Denon ..
The Audio and Video's Industry has been too long mired in its old ways. They have lost sight of the needs and wants of the new generations. Yet people seem to continue to be attracted to "good" sound, whatever that means. When the sound coming from their AV system resemble what they hear in events or functions where music is played by a band, people seem to recognize it as "good" sound. Almost at an intuitive level.
Yet most of those companies haven't produced much to serve the public. We are still in the numerous boxes and lot of wires .. in a world of wireless, pressing icons on a smartphone or vocalizing commands. At times their cluelessness is beyond baffling (talking to you Harman).
An exemple: Class D affords small form factors and efficiency for massive power output, superb performance and, these days an important factor, excellent energy efficiency. How many AVR do you see with Class D? Not from Denon or Marantz or ... perhaps Pioneer, briefly. Class D amplifier modules can be easily sourced by the DIYers, yet are rare as hens teeth in the AV world.
Wireless.. Half-baked efforts by Denon with their potentially good HEOS... who else?
Clear DRC, named D R C as in Digital Room Correction. Audyssey actually performs that feat. Once you work for years at it and frequenct fora and debate and read and research. Why not make it easy? Easier? A subscription? Something the layman get to make his/her/their system sound ood in their room... Noooope.
It is clear people don't like a lot of big speakers and wires in their rooms.. yet, there has to be a middle ground between the stooopidly small and bad sounding Bose "cubes" and the usual speakers favored by the audiophiles. A exemple : 5 JBL LSR305 and some disguised subwoofers ( they could be coffee table for all I care :D) with good integration in most living room can make for a pleasant sounding system and pas trop cher? No? Dress them up in some designer shapes and colors, throw in the decoding from something the size of an Apple TV4K, sending the signal to the speakers wirelessly. IMO and IME , eminently feasible with today's technology. Where is such product? I mean, we know the advantage of soffit mounting, that is what a speaker mounted in a wall is... We can control directivity electronically .. yet we are still pushing boxes to the public?
The charge is being led by the Lifestyle sector. Often derided by us audiophiles, they've seen the light. they lack however the knoweldge of the traditionally AV companies.. Yet they , at times surprise me. SONOS sounds good to me, so does Devialet, their little speakers speak a lot of truth. And the bass coming from these smallish pumping boxes is stupendous... From time to time Bose (o_O )too, the 700 soundbar sounds good to me, not something I would listen to for hours but casually, yes, in a bedroom, yes. As for Bang and Olufsen, some of their speakers will wipe the floor with many of our ASR favorite speakers... in most rooms. While being as pretty and fine looking as <Plug whatever pretty celebrity you want here>... If you have the opportunity, please listen to a Beolab 5, you'll hear and understand what I mean. They're a strange company...

Which AV company will make this transition? I see Kef, moving toward? I see Cabasse, another European compan. Who else? Ikea... No joke. They are thinking it. Their Home electronics strategy is alive. They are thinking Home Electronics. People see their (abundant and very good) Home Automation offering, I believe Ikea is looking for more. Their collaboration with SONOS is no fluke.

All that to say that the future of the AVR is no AVR but software, applications, apps and the hardware to accommodate and integrate these. In a very small package. Apple TV 4K or smaller size.

peace.
 

tvrgeek

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No binding posts, Speakers will be battery powered and connected via BT. It will be no bigger than a paper back. It should be built into the TV,
Just think, no more HDMI or CEC failures. You still need a legacy disk player. I would hope not as hard to use as the side mounted one in my all-in-one PC.
 

Galliardist

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May questions are unanswered:
Does it need any video connection?
Does it need any overlay menu?
Does it need any streaming capability?

It could be just an audio black box with a Dsp if the power amplification is separated.
In that case the Hdmi to the TV needs to be replaced with a new standard dedicated only for an audio link.
I could see it as a decoder box that sends video to the display and audio to an audio system. Streaming is likely to be the way everything is delivered in the near future and could be done with today's standards, so why not.

You'll need a controller of some sort but a tablet can do that just as today, as well. All the pieces are around today, I guess I'm talking about a more logical layout of the parts. In the process we can use a specialised video link to the display and a specialised audio link to the audio system. That gives the opportunity for better clocking than HDMI at least used to have when I followed it more closely.

Maybe I'm just describing an HTPC with amps in the speakers, so not that radical after all. Oh well... but there is a strong case for audio companies to be heavily involved in any such redesign. The audio may be the hardest part.
If one is allowed to fantasy :) I would like a standardised audiovisual network protocol for home use wired and wireless including active speakers tv and sources computers game consoles etc etc . It would even carry correction curves to send to your active speakers etc

There will ofcourse always be an audiophile wondering if it plays DSD or where to put the tubes :eek:o_O
I'd keep the active speakers relatively dumb for playback, with only simple decoding and amplification, so they don't become outdated quickly. Marantz for one would use DSD on that leg - just a filter circuit, no DAC chip. So why not? I don't see a role for tubes in this kind of setup though.
 

dlaloum

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An open operating system device would make sense... whether android or windows matters little, and neither does whether it is in the tv or pc...

But in a world of DRM will the licence / media owners let it happen?
 

Blumlein 88

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An open operating system device would make sense... whether android or windows matters little, and neither does whether it is in the tv or pc...

But in a world of DRM will the licence / media owners let it happen?
No they will not. Dolby and others are why the AVRs are like they are. And pre/pros cost too much. Why do they not just leave out amps and sell the pre for the same price?
 

vert

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Maybe the new Chinese companies will make their move into AVRs. Topping and SMSL may keep growing in coming years. I like their philosophy of building small units with good performance. The slow reaction from the historical companies is a bit surprising. For desktop audio, large units do not make much sense. For TV audio, the success of soundbars and companies like Sonos kind of proves consumers aren't too enthralled anymore by the behemoth AVRs, even though they still have their place. I have one of the "flat" Marantz units (the size of a traditional stereo receiver) and would never purchase a taller AVR.
 
OP
ThatM1key

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Would you buy one?
Kind of

May questions are unanswered:
Does it need any video connection?
Does it need any overlay menu?
Does it need any streaming capability?

It could be just an audio black box with a Dsp if the power amplification is separated.
In that case the Hdmi to the TV needs to be replaced with a new standard dedicated only for an audio link.
1. It still has a GUI
2. It can't overlay due to it not having any inputs.
3. That's what the TV is for.

I think my prediction needs to be reworked. This specific prediction was mainly based on current market trends, not much of personal opinion involved. The one thing that never nobody mentioned was the missing volume knob, I thought it was funny.
 

DonR

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The one thing that never nobody mentioned was the missing volume knob, I thought it was funny.
If it is designed to be run by CEC, the volume knob is superfluous and cuts into the profit margin.
 

brandonhall

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Resurrecting an old thread but I'd absolutely love a device like the mockup. The BlueSound PowerNode (which I own) is pretty close and includes streaming. If BlueSound came out with a 5.1 receiver and stuck to their guns on minimalism, I think it would be a huge hit in the market.
 
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