My Measurements - SPL & Step Response of Genelec 8361a & 8320

[vocalisto]

Hey Guys,

I'm really not an Expert of Measurements or Room Acoustics.. I'm just a Music Producer / Singer-Songwriter from Germany and I want to get my Room sounding right with DIY Treatment trough try & errow..

I did a few Measurements in REW of my Room and also placed the Measurement Mic directly in front on my Speakers to check the Frequency Response and the Step Response with lesser Influence of my Room Response.



I've noticed that the frequency response looks somehow smoother with the Genelec 8320. The Step Response of the 8361a looks weird in comparsion with the 8320's..
Here are a few Pics of my Measurements of the two Speakers with different Distances..



One thing that bothers me about the 8361s is that the separation is not as good as with the smaller 8320s. In a dense mix, I can focus more on single instruments and voices with the 8320s. That really shouldn't be the case! It should be the other way around. And now I'm just really trying to figure out what's the reason for this phenomen.
I just really want to make sure that the Genelec 8361's are technically working absolutely correctly but I don't know what the Step Response in my Measurements is telling me now?

It would be great if someone can have a look into my REW Measurements who's more familiar with that. Unfortunately, I still have too long decay at 35 and 38Hz because the room modes dominate too much here, which I have not yet got under control. Is it my bad sounding room? Or is this just a different Character and Flavor of the 2-Way vs 3 Way Coax Speakers?

Would be great if we can get it clarify here. Here is the Measurement File:

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

greetings from germany

 

[Joachim Herbert]

Maybe the 8361 excites room modes the 8320 doesn't, which in turn obscure relevant information. You need to measure at your listening position to find out. That closeup stuff is not useful at all in this context. Also, why not use GLM?

Edit: Grüße aus München!

 

[vocalisto]

Maybe the 8361 excites room modes the 8320 doesn't, which in turn obscure relevant information. You need to measure at your listening position to find out. That closeup stuff is not useful at all in this context. Also, why not use GLM?

Edit: Grüße aus München!

I also did measurments at the listening position. All these measurments are in the mdat file from REW that I've uploaded to my Dropbox and I've provided a Download Link to that file here so that everybode can take a look into it. GLM will not fix all issues like too much decay, good Impulse or better seperation. I just want to be sure that the Speakers are working correctly also withoud GLM first.

Grüße zurück lol

 

[Joachim Herbert]

How does it sound with GLM active. It seems to handle the room modes pretty well. Not sure what is going on at 800/1000 Hz and about the the dip at 400Hz.

Got a comparable measurement for the 8320?

 

[tmtomh]

Also, why not use GLM?

This is the key question.

 

[holdingpants01]

try the GLM correction and especially the Extended Phase Linearity mode, it's more than a simple EQ

 

[vocalisto]

How does it sound with GLM active. It seems to handle the room modes pretty well. Not sure what is going on at 800/1000 Hz and about the the dip at 400Hz.

Got a comparable measurement for the 8320?

I use GLM all the time but it's not possible to eq the decay away from the room modes or to fix early reflexions or to get a better impulse or better seperations etc.

 

[vocalisto]

try the GLM correction and especially the Extended Phase Linearity mode, it's more than a simple EQ

I all ready do this! But like a said a few times it can't fix all issues.. GLM is good but it can't do magic..

 

[holdingpants01]

I all ready do this! But like a said a few times it can't fix all issues.. GLM is good but it can't do magic..

Ok, but it was corrected with the GLM microphone at the listening position, but then measured in REW with microphone right at the tweeter? This doesn't tell anything TBH. I have 8330 and 8351 and I have exactly the opposite experience with their sound to yours

 

[vocalisto]

Ok, but it was corrected with the GLM microphone at the listening position, but then measured in REW with microphone right at the tweeter? This doesn't tell anything TBH. I have 8330 and 8351 and I have exactly the opposite experience with their sound to yours

yea and this is curios.. it should be the other way around.. 8361a should reveal more seperation and more details etc.

The measurements 3 is the one I did with GLM active on the Listening Position with with an even stereo triangle on 176cm. It looks like this:



but look how crazy the step response look like..



With a coaxial loudspeaker I expect all 3 drivers to arrive at the same time. This is how the Step Response of a traditional 3-Way Loudspeaker looks like (no Coax):


And this is how it looks like if all 3 Drivers are perfectly time aligned:



all my other measurements are withoud GLM to check my Room Issues and to check if the speakers are working correctly.. I just want to figure out why this is

 

[Joachim Herbert]

I cannot provide any more useful input as I do not know how to take proper step response measurements nor how to interpret these.

Unless the setup is verified the results may be just grossly misleading.

 

[vocalisto]

I cannot provide any more useful input as I do not know how to take proper step response measurements nor how to interpret these.

Unless the setup is verified the results may be just grossly misleading.

yes, I had hoped to meet people here who are much more familiar with it than I am...
But I see that you also have the 8361, so it would be nice if you could take the same measurements yourself. Maybe your step response looks better than mine?

 

[boxerfan88]

Something's odd seem to be going on, it's odd to see one of the speaker bass lining up 10dB lower than midrange/highs.
Some sort of LFE/bass management thing going on? Or something wrong with the R speaker?
I doubt room issues cause such a nice clean 10dB drop in the entire bass area, room issues normally show up as huge peak & dips in the bass area.

Secondly 5/15cm is too close for measurements, because the drivers need some distance to integrate properly.
Refer to picture below. I would highly recommend taking measurement at 100cm.

Thirdly, maybe take a measurement of both the 8361a after a full reset to factory default, just to make sure nothing is wrong with the speakers.

 

[Joachim Herbert]

yes, I had hoped to meet people here who are much more familiar with it than I am...
But I see that you also have the 8361, so it would be nice if you could take the same measurements yourself. Maybe your step response looks better than mine?

I would not know how to do that properly, so I won't. I paid an acoustic engineer to check and improve my setup. Asymmetric room, nasty modes (+26dB). I decided to use GLM, as I cannot rebuild the house. I am happy with my setup, given the limitations forced upon me. All I did as to physical room treatment was adding two front wall absorbers to ease early reflections in the midrange. These are not enough, will add some more when I have figured out how to remove my wall mounted flat panel TV .

 

[vocalisto]

Something's odd seem to be going on, it's odd to see one of the speaker bass lining up 10dB lower than midrange/highs.
Some sort of LFE/bass management thing going on? Or something wrong with the R speaker?
I doubt room issues cause such a nice clean 10dB drop in the entire bass area, room issues normally show up as huge peak & dips in the bass area.

View attachment 409589

Secondly 5/15cm is too close for measurements, because the drivers need some distance to integrate properly.
Refer to picture below. I would highly recommend taking measurement at 100cm.


View attachment 409588

Thirdly, maybe take a measurement of both the 8361a after a full reset to factory default, just to make sure nothing is wrong with the speakers.

Hey Man, thank you so much! This Chart is what I was looking for before I take the measurements but I couln't find it anymore. So I wasn't sure about the minimal distance for my speakers. But in this chart I see the minimum Distance for the 8361 is at 50cm and I did also do some measurments at 50cm. On this distance I think the drivers should be all played at the same time. Why are you recommending to take the measurements on 100cm?

Maybe the 10dB Drop from the right Speaker comes from the too short Distance at 5cm?

I don't have a Sub. I've got only the 8361a's and 8320's they're connected analog right into my audio interface UA Apollo X4.

Can you tell me how to do a full factory reset?

 

[boxerfan88]

But in this chart I see the minimum Distance for the 8361 is at 50cm and I did also do some measurments at 50cm. On this distance I think the drivers should be all played at the same time. Why are you recommending to take the measurements on 100cm?

Based on the chart, measuring at 50cm should be fine.
I recommend 100cm because that is the "standard" distance for most (if not all) of the speaker measurements at the factory.

Maybe the 10dB Drop from the right Speaker comes from the too short Distance at 5cm?

I don't have a Sub. I've got only the 8361a's and 8320's they're connected analog right into my audio interface UA Apollo X4.

Can you tell me how to do a full factory reset?

I don't own a Genelec.
A quick check in the manual it shows the instructions below the power button.
The picture in the manual says "reset to factory settings: push button for 10 sec".

ps: also cross check the dip switches are set correctly.

 

[boxerfan88]

While browsing the manual ... I saw this chart ...
Do check the "bass tilt" and "bass roll off" dip switch settings on both speakers...

 

[Pearljam5000]

So... 8320 is better than 8361?

 

[AnalogSteph]

So... 8320 is better than 8361?

No, not really. Although the 8361 isn't really the best choice for a nearfield application since it is a slight step down in terms of dispersion from the 8351 in favor of more oomph.

The oddities at 5 cm can be explained fairly easily:
In case of the 8320, the microphone is situated waaay off-axis from the woofer so its response starts to drop early, with things only recovering once the tweeter takes over.
In case of the 8361, the mic is much closer to the mid-treble coax than the woofers, hence why the low end is shelved down.