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My Kingdom For A Remote Volume Knob! can this be made?

Keith_W

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Yes the knob is metal. I chose black over the silver version because I prefer the look. They helpfully supplied a hex key for taking off the volume knob (and screwdriver for changing batteries in the bottom). The knob feels very good, but I've planned from the beginning to have another more luxurious knob made to replace it. Likely brass or bronze rimmed with a black top, and a brass volume indicator line on the top to see volume position better.

Your adventure has gotten me thinking about commissioning my own volume control knob. All it needs to do is replicate the function of some keys from my Logitech K830 media keyboard. I am not sure if it is possible, since the keyboard communicates with the PC wirelessly via a proprietary Logitech dongle.

Your remote is infra-red yes? From memory that is much easier to program, it's a bunch of code which is sent to the IR transmitter and the code can be captured by any IR receiver. I used to have a Marantz RC9500 remote which was programmable, and it would work even with remotes not in it's database. To program it, you have to point the remote you want to replicate to the IR receiver of the RC9500, and then press the button on the other remote. The RC9500 would capture the code, and on the RC9500 you give it a name, e.g. "PLAY". You do the same for all the buttons. Once I had the code, I could write macros. So a single press of a macro button on my RC9500 would turn on the TV, receiver, DVD player, put everything in the correct mode, and then start playing the DVD.

Sadly, remotes like this have gone out of production.
 

Albiepalbie

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I was watching an old Darko video in which he discussed his appreciation for being able to control an audio system with a remote volume knob.

He gets to the "why" of this around 51 seconds in:


I was like: YES! Someone gets me!

I place a high value on the combination of ergonomics and aesthetics and the "feel" of equipment.

When I'm streaming my digital music in my system I'm using my iPhone as the remote (or iPad), so that just feels like, well...using my damned iphone again. Like I do all day long. There isn't anything particularly "nice" about the feel of using my phone or ipad for this purpose. For volume I can use the iphone (using logitech server software) but I often prefer to leave the volume at 0 and adjust volume via my pre-amp remote (or universal remote control). Again...pretty much held hostage to the feel of the supplied remote, or my universal remote.
Eh.

What I'd REALLY LOVE is just what Darko describes in the video: a big ol' physical volume knob to control volume, right at my listening position. Ideally one that looks super high quality and lux, and feels that way. I could even imagine a nice wood knob as the dial.

I once had this when I used a Museatex Bidat DAC, which could be run directly in to my amps, the volume was a wired remote control - a dial on a little wood block like this:

View attachment 211845

Not exactly luxurious, but it's the general idea.

I did a fairly extensive search on the web and there doesn't seem to be a product like the one I'm describing. There is the occasional product with a knob remote control, but it's usually proprietary to the device in question. There are remote knobs that you can set up via blue tooth or wired to your computer, but that doesn't solve it either. (My Apogee Duet usb audio interface I use with my DAW has a nice volume knob, though doesn't do exactly what I'm asking).

I have both analog sources (turntable) and digital, running through my preamp in to my system.

So what I'd need is a remote volume knob that is also able to learn or download remote commands to control either my LA4 or Conrad Johnson preamps. Right now those are controlled with their own remotes (and an IR repeater system).

Lacking any finished product I wondered if such a learning volume knob could be built custom. But I have no idea if there are any sort of "computer module" parts that would constitute the "learning remote codes" part somehow in concert with some potentiometer section or whatever?

To be honest, this post is more curiosity about how difficult such a project would be more than any likelihood I'd engage in trying to build one. And among the vast experience on this site, perhaps someone has actually come across something like this, or used one before.
Quad 66 did one
 
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MattHooper

MattHooper

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Your adventure has gotten me thinking about commissioning my own volume control knob. All it needs to do is replicate the function of some keys from my Logitech K830 media keyboard. I am not sure if it is possible, since the keyboard communicates with the PC wirelessly via a proprietary Logitech dongle.

I hope you can find a solution. I'd be clueless as to how to achieve it.

Your remote is infra-red yes? From memory that is much easier to program, it's a bunch of code which is sent to the IR transmitter and the code can be captured by any IR receiver.

Correct. Ironically even though IR learning is basic, nobody was doing it in the volume knob form factor I wanted. And of course things have moved away from universal remotes/IR commands to wi-fi and BlueTooth based commands.

I used to have a Marantz RC9500 remote which was programmable, and it would work even with remotes not in it's database. To program it, you have to point the remote you want to replicate to the IR receiver of the RC9500, and then press the button on the other remote. The RC9500 would capture the code, and on the RC9500 you give it a name, e.g. "PLAY". You do the same for all the buttons. Once I had the code, I could write macros. So a single press of a macro button on my RC9500 would turn on the TV, receiver, DVD player, put everything in the correct mode, and then start playing the DVD.

Sadly, remotes like this have gone out of production.

Ah yes, that days of those universal remotes were very heady. I spent a lot of time doing that stuff too - still have some of them in a remotes bin somewhere.
It was great doing your own customization. Whole forums devoted to that stuff back in the day.

My RTI Remote system is capable of utlra complex programming and it's bullet-proof once programmed. But it requires an AV installer to program, which can be a headache sometimes.
 

somebodyelse

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Your adventure has gotten me thinking about commissioning my own volume control knob. All it needs to do is replicate the function of some keys from my Logitech K830 media keyboard. I am not sure if it is possible, since the keyboard communicates with the PC wirelessly via a proprietary Logitech dongle.
The dongle is proprietary but the key codes end up as standard USB HID ones. You (or whoever you commission) should be able to send them via a bluetooth 'keyboard' interface using an ESP32, Pi Pico W or similar embedded bluetooth controller. No shortage of code examples either.
Your remote is infra-red yes? From memory that is much easier to program, it's a bunch of code which is sent to the IR transmitter and the code can be captured by any IR receiver. I used to have a Marantz RC9500 remote which was programmable, and it would work even with remotes not in it's database. To program it, you have to point the remote you want to replicate to the IR receiver of the RC9500, and then press the button on the other remote. The RC9500 would capture the code, and on the RC9500 you give it a name, e.g. "PLAY". You do the same for all the buttons. Once I had the code, I could write macros. So a single press of a macro button on my RC9500 would turn on the TV, receiver, DVD player, put everything in the correct mode, and then start playing the DVD.

Sadly, remotes like this have gone out of production.
Another fine example for an electronics/code club, with loads of examples available such as https://www.makerguides.com/ir-receiver-remote-arduino-tutorial/ - or run something similar on the ESP32 or Pico W to have a remote that can do bluetooth, IR and network requests (via wifi) to control multiple devices.
 

Keith_W

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Hmmm, so it might be possible to commission a remote that sends key codes to a common bluetooth dongle then? Does Windows mind having two "keyboards" connected to it?
 

somebodyelse

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Hmmm, so it might be possible to commission a remote that sends key codes to a common bluetooth dongle then? Does Windows mind having two "keyboards" connected to it?
Certainly. Windows (and MacOS and linux...) is fine with multiple 'keyboards' - many people use external keyboards with their laptop for example, and people are increasingly building their own custom mechanical keyboards. It's at the level of 'after school project' not 'rocket science' now.
 

Keith_W

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While I was researching how to make my own remote control knob, I remembered that when I built my PC around a Streacom FC10 case, I had the foresight to order a FLIRC IR unit. I had forgotten about it until now! So I went to the FLIRC website and downloaded the driver.

In a nutshell: FLIRC allows ANY remote to be used for ANY program on your PC. It works by recording the IR code from your remote as a keystroke or function. I just tried it with an old defunct remote I had sitting in my collection. It worked! I can control all functions within JRiver from my old CD player remote! The software is so easy to use as well! I got it up and running without reading any documentation.

This will GREATLY simplify any remote I want to construct for myself. Or I could buy ANY nicely constructed IR remote and use that. I am off to browse some electronics websites to look for a DIY IR transmitter. Looks like my journey is going to begin!

If you want to try this, you will need to buy an IR receiver from FLIRC. They are quite inexpensive.
 
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MattHooper

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IT'S HERE !!!!

First, given this remote was being constructed and programmed on the other side of the world I expected hiccups along the way. And it turns out, yes I've encountered some problems after trying the remote. The cheap IR blaster system I've been using seems too finicky for the Omniarc remote, and so won't reliably transmit the commands. Second, the volume commands aren't working at all for the Benchmark preamp. (Though other commands work).

However, this isn't a big surprise and it doesn't seem to be anything insurmountable. We are going to plan B as we'd already discussed, which is me sending my Benchmark remote to AdamsCustomAudio so they can get the OmniArc remote working for those commands. My current IR blaster was only a temporary solution I'd been using. I'm having a custom AV installer do a more reliable hard wired IR run from my listening room to my equipment rack (and RTI control system). I'm already wired with some Cat5 for that. Just a matter of getting it done.

But it should work because, at least with the CJ pre-amp, if I point the Omniarc directly at the preamp bypassing the IR blaster, all the commands work beautifully!

So...hopefully just a not too unexpected bump in the road to get over.

Meanwhile here are some photos:

The custom remote came in a nicely engraved wood box (I blurred my name):


View attachment 274175


Here it is:

View attachment 274176

View attachment 274177

It looks really beautiful in person, wonderful wood finish. This gives an idea of the size, though it looks a bit smaller in this photo for some reason compared to my hand:

View attachment 274178

So, just playing around with the Omniarc remote: It has a rich finish, it has a great feel in the hand - some substantial weight, a smooth finish, and the ergonomics are pretty much perfect. That nice gradual slope from the volume knob means my wrist is supported comfortably when turning the knob. It is just really
carefully designed.

The knob has a nice feel. It's perfect size, big enough to feel substantial, but not over-sized. And it has nice action. I was surprised to find that there was a subtle stepped action to turning the knob, sort of just discernible little smooth "clunk" as it turns through volume steps. This actually works perfectly with the CJ pre-amp. Each tiny 'clunk' represents an increment of volume change on the preamp, and...mercifully!...the volume on the preamp tracks really well with the knob turning! If I spin the knob super fast, yes the pre-amp volume can get a bit "lost" in catching up. But at the speeds I'll actually be turning, it works great. And it's very reliable! Four clunks down or up reliably hit the very same volume setting on the preamp. This is really what I wanted, as it gives me more feedback/detail as to how high or low I'm setting the volume. We'll see how this works out with the Benchmark preamp.

Other things like the commands based on push-turning the knob, or double tapping to switch inputs, work great! And I love how the LED light flashes with each command. And each device has it's own color, so red flashes for the CJ, Blue for the Benchmark etc.

I have to do some testing to see if/how it operates the other gear, like my AVR. But, so long as we can get the Benchmark working with this, I'm quite excited because this is essentially exactly what I'm looking for.



Update on my OmniArc remote:

I still have to send it back to Adams custom audio to get the Benchmark commands working, which I'll be doing soon.

But, as I mentioned my IR blaster wasn't playing nice with the OmniArc. So I bought a fairly cheap IR box repeater that uses wired connections, just to test out the Omniarc. This means about a 30 foot IR cable run from my equipment room to my listening room, where I have the OmniArc (henceforth "OA") sitting beside me on the sofa.

Thanfully it works well through the wired IR repeater. It operates all my equipment - CJ preamp, Denon AV reciever, Apple TV, Oppo UHD Blu Ray player. It actually also operates all the commands for the Benchmark preamp EXCEPT the volume for some reason. So that's what they'll fix for me.

So my short take so far is that the remote is just perfectly ergonomic. It's the perfect size with a substantial knob and a gentle slope to the wood form, so my arm and hand sit naturally along the remote to turn the knob. Feels really nice. Plus I love the LED ring light around the knob, the way it flashes with each commands. So for instance in the Benchmark preamp operating mode, the LED flashes blue for each knob turn or knob press.

And the loading different commands mode works perfectly: I push the knob down for 2 seconds, the LED ring color comes on, and then by pressing the knob I cycle through different LED colors representing different gear combos, select the one I want (e.g. red LED for the CJ preamp), press the knob for two seconds and now the CJ amp commands are loaded, and the LED flashes red for all commands. So I can always easily tell which commands are loaded.

The volume knob works perfectly in controlling the CJ preamp volume. Of course if I spin the knob really fast the CJ preamp can't catch up in changing volume. But at any reasonable speed turning the volume knob tracks great. I find the volume knob both more ergonomic and intuitive for volume changes. If I'm using the usual remote control and I want the volume up I have to pick up the remote, press the volume, holding it while waiting and listening for the volume to get where I want. Using the OA remote, I just have to reach for the knob, and because it gives little mild clicks with each command when turning the knob, I get good feedback as to how much I've turned up the volume. So now I know that 3 or 4 clicks up will land me right on the volume I want, or the same clicks down will get back precisely to where I was.

And just being able to press the big knob for mute/unmute is very nice. It's just a lot simpler to interact with than any remote I've used.

I've tried watching stuff on Apple TV via my projector, in which case the OmniArc remote operates the volume on my AV reciever and pressing the knob pauses/unpauses picture, while press-turning the knob forward or backwards sends FF or RR controls. It works!

The only issue here is that my AV receiver operates on finer gradients than my CJ preamp - so .5dB per step on the Denon. That means I have to turn the OmniArc knob more than is ideal, to get meaningful changes in volume. The company is going to see what they can do about this when I send the remote back for reprogramming.

There may be a similar issue to overcome with the Benchmark preamp, which also uses .5dB steps for volume.

Anyway, so far it's very promising.
 

Soniclife

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There may be a similar issue to overcome with the Benchmark preamp, which also uses .5dB steps for volume.
I love those steps with my Devialet remote, makes it feel like an analogue control, and not stepped like a full dB change does.
 
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MattHooper

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I love those steps with my Devialet remote, makes it feel like an analogue control, and not stepped like a full dB change does.

I've never liked too-coarse steps in a volume control. Makes it hard to get just the right volume. My friend uses a sonic frontiers tube preamp and it would be literally unusable to me. It's volume steps are so ridiculously course...maybe 4dB to 6db or something...that I can never land on just the right volume.

My CJ amp volume steps seem just right. I'll have to figure out how many db/step they use.

Nice to see you are living the remote-volume dream with a Devialet!
 

Soniclife

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It's a nigh on perfect remote, and I'm picky about anything imperfectly realised, so don't get me started on some of the devialet software.
 
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MattHooper

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It's a nigh on perfect remote, and I'm picky about anything imperfectly realised, so don't get me started on some of the devialet software.

The Devialet is a damned cool looking device! Love the volume read out. That would be ideal. The company that made my remote is open to doing other remote design ideas if I come up with them, and maybe in the future I'll go for a big dial with a read out like the Devialet. Though that would mostly only work for my AV receiver since my two channel pre-amps can't send feedback info on volume. The price of being an analog dinosaur!

I'm undecided if I'll be using the OmniArc remote a lot for my home theater system. If we can get the volume changes more to my liking, could be. But then, sometimes a more flexible dedicated device, like my RTI universal remote, will just fit the bill better.

But for two channel audio listening, the physical volume knob is just what I wanted. It just feels more natural to use, like the difference between physical knobs on a car dashboard, vs the new touchscreens (that everyone hates).
 

TheGreatTomDix

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I honestly came here to follow this and just simply say that you guys this shit is basically porn to me!!!! I want the thing with an LCD and that Ikea thing combined!

That giant chrome metal one too! That combined with an LCD like the nest has too!! OH BABY where have you been my whole life!
 

KlausE

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Another option i personally use is a space mouse which twists instead of rotating, but this allows for very fine and precise volume control.
It has 6 degrees of freedom, a heavy base, two buttons and nice build quality. Here's my github repo for those who want to use a wired 3Dconnexion SpaceNavigator or SpaceMouse Compact with Roon:
There is also a commercial version for wireless space mice for Roon:
 
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MattHooper

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I honestly came here to follow this and just simply say that you guys this shit is basically porn to me!!!! I want the thing with an LCD and that Ikea thing combined!

That giant chrome metal one too! That combined with an LCD like the nest has too!! OH BABY where have you been my whole life!

LOL. Remote lust!

I remember in the earlier days of home theater when programming universal remote controls was all the rage. It was astonishing how much time and effort many put in
to it. Doesn't seem to be as much of a thing these days. (Things have switched to smart screens/iphones/ipad control it seems).
 

Knobstler

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Can someone please tell me if there is a ir volume dial that i can Set up with my yamaha cx2?
 

nodle

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I can agree a nice smooth knob makes all the difference. For example on my Schiit the volume knob is pretty subpar. But in my iFi Zen dac, the volume knob is so buttery smooth and I love adjusting it. Such a small simple feature makes all the difference.
 

JayGilb

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I use a fixed installation 10in/10out (stereo pairs) dac that has +5v dc i/o on the back that can be programmed to control volume. Other 5 v inputs can be used to control which of the 10 stereo inputs (8 analog pairs and 1 aes/ebu) is being used or to switch in various programmed scenarios, such as rock/jazz/classical equalizer settings.

It requires a home built remote that can either be wired or ir, but allows for a huge amount of customization. My remote is wired and allows me to switch in 4 pairs of analog i/o and control volume.
 

mglobe

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I love those steps with my Devialet remote, makes it feel like an analogue control, and not stepped like a full dB change does.
I wonder if the Devialet can be set up for Roon like @DrCWO did for the MS Surface Dial? That would be an awesome setup.
 
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