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My journey to "audiophile peace" - #thankyounote

therlane

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Hello - I want to share here my story - that is, my journey - towards settling with the gear I have.
This is mostly because for several weeks, I engaged in very stupid behaviour - "reading reviews" - that cost me my sleep.
If you are having a similar journey, this is for you.
If you are looking for advice what is the best to buy, this isn't.


My story starts some time in April 2019, when I had some spare money and came up with the idea to upgrade my audio gear. I had so much joy listening to some classical Music performances on YouTube, that i figured I'd appreciate it enough to justify the investment. I initially set myself a budget of 600 EUR (~700 US$). I quickly found out (is it true? - I don't know!) that I get the best sound from upgrading my headphones rather than optimizing my stereo speakers.

Up until that point, I was listening on a Sennheiser HD 555 which I had bought for ~200 US$ in 2005. So I had used for ~14 years. Now that's a lot of bang for the buck.

From reading "best headphone 2019"-style reviews, I found out that a good option is the Sennheiser HD 660S with Apogree Groove. I went into a Sennheiser Show-Room, and compared my HD 555 to a HD 660S (without Amp) and the HD 800S with the HDVD800, their DAC/Amp Combo.
I noticed that the HD 660S sounds very similar to the HD 555. I couldn't really tell a difference. To some extent, I believe my old HD 555 was "warmer". The HD 800S/HDVD800 sounded more detailed and I noticably enjoyed it more. But dismissed it for the price.

So I went ahead and ordered myself the HD660S with Apogee Groove. And because it had shown in some "best audiogear..." articles, I also ordered myself a fiio Q5, because of the Bluetooth and Portability.
I was so happy when it arrived. It was so much fun to listen to my music on HD660S, and on the fiio Q5.
I compared it to the HD555, though, and again didn't find a difference.
So I returned the HD660S/Apogee bundle, because I figured I'd constantly tell myself it was not a good deal for me.
Since fiio announced their Q5s, a follow-up to the Q5, I returned that one as well. Consider: The Q5s has a "balanced" out, and a more advanced Amp module, it must surely be better.


With that, I still didn't have a better head-phone. So I started to look for affordable HD 800S. I found out a page where I can buy it in "B-condition", but it was still too expensive. And then: At last! - I found an ebayer offering his HD 800S for a mere 1k EUR (~1,150 US$). So I immediately bought it.

This is where the nightmare began:
The HD 800S has an impedance of 300 Ohms. It needs a proper Amp. And it's a balanced headphone. So a balanced Amp would be good. I read some mentions that there's not really a difference between balanced/ Single-ended, but still... come on... you need it.
So I started looking for Amp and DAC.

And looking for these, I spent probably 60 hours over 3 weeks reading reviews of DACs, Amps and DAC/Amp Combos. First I set myself a budget of 400 US$ (the RRP of the fiio Q5s, which was not yet available, and postponed to July, then August, now September). Then I took into consideration other devices which I could find on eBay for a discount.

Here is a list of devices I looked into. And read 2 or more reviews about at least 1/3rd of them - I hope this ranks high in Google, so that you read the article and check yourself if you are in the same trap:
- Schiit magni
- April eximus DP1 (this has a beautiful name!)
- fiio E10k
- fiio BTR1k
- audioquest dragonfly
- Shangling UP2
- Auris "Amplify"
- audeze deckard
- NuForce uDAC-5
- Objective2+ ODAC
- Matrix M-Stage
- Marantz HD-AMP1
- ifi xDSD
- Topping DX3 Pro
- SMSL M3
- Aune T1 SE MK3 (Aune is also a very sexy name)
- Liquid Carbon X
- CTH + SDAC
- Neo 430 HAD
- Woo Audio WA7
- Sony TA-ZH1ES
- Fostex HP-A4BL
- DNA Sonett 2 ("sonett". That sounds powerful!)
- Schiit Mjolnir
- Radsone Earstudio ES100
- Behringer PowerPlay HA4600
- Monoltih 124459
- Aune S6
- Aune S7
- Schhit Jotunheim
- Klipsch Heritage
- Monoprice THX.
IMPORTANT: I'm not saying ANYTHING bad or positive about these items. Ah, many of them have amazing design and I'd like to have them just for the look and the touch. My point is just how confusing and time-consuming it is, if you want to "optimize" by reading reviews.

Luckily, I didn't order & test any one of them.
Unluckily, I was clearly in an "addiction" for finding the best bang for the buck, and doing it by reading reviews and getting my own conclusions.


How did this show up?
I started reading reviews when I got home. I continued when going to bed. I found myself reading about it at 3 AM in the morning. And I was tired the next day at work. It was just that important to me. And it had these consequences.
The best line in these reviews: "For just XXX US$ you get a device playing at a quality for easily X times the price." --- This got me very excited. It must be a good product. I want to read more reviews. Maybe this is the gear for me.
This is why I'm sharing this.


Then I was about to buy a Schiit stack (the DAC/Amp Combo for 600 US$ ish). I had it in my shopping basket several times.
And then saw the thread here about the dangerous grounding issue, and about the workaround to get rid of the humming. I decided I don't want to get that involved with the device.

And at some point in time I arrived at the Topping DX3 Pro Thread here. I was disappointed. I didn't understand the measurements. There was no "this gives you the sound of a 600 US$ amp at just 200 US." All that was said it that it compared very much to the expectations in measurements.

But at that price, I just gave it a try, ordered it.
At that point in time, i had listened to the HD 800S on my Notebook Audio out for ~1 week. And it was already pretty good. I'm not sure if I actually made a comparison to the HD 555.

As the Topping DX3 Pro arrived, it was pretty underwhelming. It didn't sound better than my Notebook Audio Out. Just a little bit in the bass space. And louder (which is always good). -- I'm still intending to do some blind tests with friends, to figure out if they can disambiguate the equipment when set to the same volume.


And I'm happy with it. I've read objective measurements. I'm still concerned that amir just by accident got a model that performed better than other production runs (there are threads about DX3 quality here... and of course they did raise my doubts, too). So I do have a good DAC/AMP combo. And it has Bluetooth, which is amazing. And it set me back much less than where I was going.

To me, it's important to have peace of mind. And I hope that those of you, who recognize yourself in that journey, find peace of mind, too.
And maybe - MAYBE - I will one day try other equipment and go for things like the looks, the name, or my subjective listening, but not go for the reviews out there.

Thanks for reading that far. - This is really about my personal experience, to other people who are in the middle of a similar journey.
And, this is a HUGE thank you to Amir, and this community, including those haggling with Amir.




P.S.: If this sounds like an AA meeting share, it's because it's my intention.
 
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LTig

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[..]The HD 800S has an impedance of 300 Ohms. It needs a proper Amp. And it's a balanced headphone.
Actually every headphone is balanced, and most of them become unbalanced in the connector, where two of the four wires are connected to the ground pin.
So a balanced Amp would be good. I read some mentions that there's not really a difference between balanced/ Single-ended, but still... come on... you need it.
You don't need a balanced amp. Just get yourself an adapter from balanced to unbalanced and you're done. I'm 99.9999% sure that no one on this earth will hear a difference between balanced and unbalanced as long as the power is the same (In theory balanced can deliver 4 times the power of unbalanced).
And at some point in time I arrived at the Topping DX3 Pro Thread here [..] But at that price, I just gave it a try, ordered it.
At that point in time, i had listened to the HD 800S on my Notebook Audio out for ~1 week. And it was already pretty good.
I have a HD800 and almost all subjective reviewers wrote that it needs a specialized high end headphone amp to sound good, otherwise it would sound horrible. This came out to be utter BS. Even on my smartphone the HD800 sounds better than any other headphone I own (and there are quite a few). It's no wonder that it sounds good on your Notebook. It does sound better on better amps, for sure.
[..]As the Topping DX3 Pro arrived, it was pretty underwhelming. It didn't sound better than my Notebook Audio Out. Just a little bit in the bass space. And louder (which is always good). -- I'm still intending to do some blind tests with friends, to figure out if they can disambiguate the equipment when set to the same volume.

And I'm happy with it.[..]
To me, it's important to have peace of mind. And I hope that those of you, who recognize yourself in that journey, find peace of mind, too.
And maybe - MAYBE - I will one day try other equipment and go for things like the looks, the name, or my subjective listening, but not go for the reviews out there.
The really get peace of mind: don't read reviews of headphones and amps, don't go into shops and on audio fairs to listen to other headphones and amps - at least not within the next 15+ years. Just enjoy it and keep it until it breaks.
 

garbulky

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If you are underwhelmed with the subjective sound of the topping amp Try the Emotiva basx a-100. It’s a great match with my hd 700. Use it in jumpers engaged mode for huge amounts of power. Note it is single ended.
 

amirm

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And I'm happy with it. I've read objective measurements. I'm still concerned that amir just by accident got a model that performed better than other production runs (there are threads about DX3 quality here... and of course they did raise my doubts, too).
I own two and both perform the same/excellently. I loaned one to my son who replaced an Oppo HA-1 and he was really happy with it too.

Be sure to test it in high gain if you have not already.
 

Crane

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that's the issue with headphones you can't really buy them blindly on reviews. You fall into that pit of going off reviewers who tend to have a different taste in sound signature/frequency response (bass,mid,treble). As far as I've seen most of those Sennheiser in 500-600 are pretty similar, that 800s is a different beast.

I agree with LTig, if you are satisfied don't go looking for new things you'll end up buying for no reason :rolleyes:. That said if you really don't enjoy those HD800s (you wont be the first person to buy something more expensive that you didn't really like) for the type of listening you are doing it's best to try something else. Get something you can return and try them at home with your own content/devices.

Trying at shops or audio fairs doesn't do much unless your gear is portable.

Be sure to test it in high gain if you have not already.

That gain setting would be the major difference for Dx3 power, I hope that is the case for him :)
 

solderdude

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HD800 ... feeling underwhelmed by the sound (a bit thin and overly bright perhaps ?)
EQ them and live happily ever after.

IMO the HD800 is very hard to beat (WITH EQ).
It sounds great in stock form with classical and warmly/bassy recorded smooth jazz only at firm listening levels.

You just need enough output voltage to drive them properly so look for amps that can reach 200mW in 300 Ohm .
Don't look at power levels in 32 or 16 Ohm these may be higher in number but won't be able to supply the needed voltage.
Headroom is what one needs here.
 

Blake Klondike

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HD800 ... feeling underwhelmed by the sound (a bit thin and overly bright perhaps ?)
EQ them and live happily ever after.

IMO the HD800 is very hard to beat (WITH EQ).
It sounds great in stock form with classical and warmly/bassy recorded smooth jazz only at firm listening levels.

You just need enough output voltage to drive them properly so look for amps that can reach 200mW in 300 Ohm .
Don't look at power levels in 32 or 16 Ohm these may be higher in number but won't be able to supply the needed voltage.
Headroom is what one needs here.

Can you tell me what EQ settings you are using with your HD800s? I like mine a lot but would be curious to hear what EQ people are using and what it would do. Thanks!
 

solderdude

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Can you tell me what EQ settings you are using with your HD800s? I like mine a lot but would be curious to hear what EQ people are using and what it would do. Thanks!

I use hardware EQ so have no settings.
 

JJB70

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I think many of us have a similar story to tell. I went through a phase of buying boutique pricey audio gear, swallowing what the magazines said, being part of the golden ear cult etc before realising that the build quality and performance of a lot of boutique gear was mediocre and shamed by entry level gear from the likes of Sony, Yamaha, Pioneer etc. I ended up buying a Sony ES set up that has served me well ever since and is still entirely satisfactory after 25 years. It wasn't particularly cheap (it was a time when Sony were very serious about hifi) but for the pleasure it has given me and the bomb proof build quality it was an absolute bargain. Funnily enough at the time magazine reviewers derided it whilst singing the praises of stuff nothing like as well designed or made.
 
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therlane

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UPDATE:

So I have these pieces of equipment at home now:
DAC/Amp:
> Fiio Q5S (400 US$)
> Topping DX3 Pro (200 US$)
> Thinkpad T420s

Headphones:
> Sennheiser HD 555 (50 US$ used)
> Sennheiser HD 800S (1,400 US$ new)


And I did a blind test with my brother.

We didn't intend to test DAC/Amp, but we obviously wanted to test the headphones. I went through quite the hassle with the blind test, putting...

- the Fiio Q5S + HD 800S with balanced cable on USB signal from the PC
- the Topping DX3 Pro + HD 555 with normal cable from BT signal from iPad
- subject was actually blindfolded and didn't see the phones before (they have a significantly different feel on the head, but he couldn't recognize that)

- 2 tracks (one poor Youtube audio quality, another one superb Youtube audio quality classical music), and... my assistant said "I can't hear a loudness difference" between the two setups.

The test subject spent ~10 minutes in total listening to both.

Here is his feedback:
“The first one [Fiio + HD 800S) was like I was sitting in front of the screen and the sound comes from the screen.” [=dull, didn't like that much]

“The second one [Topping + HD 555] was like I am part of it, like I am sitting in a concert hall.” [= preferred!]

“With the (poor audio quality track), both of them were bad…”
“With the good audio quality piece, there was a remarkable difference..."



Ok, so far so good.

Now to the fun part:
After that whole thing I tested myself, and the 2nd setup was slightly louder. I can't measure dB, but I'd say certainly 1 or 2 dB (recognizable, but not much). So obviously the setup is bad. Now. You can throw the blind test into the garbage, OR you can say: "wow, if having an ok setup and just making it 1-2 dB louder gives a better result than a > 1,800 US$ setup, then the latter is really just a waste..."

By the way, the subject did not report a difference between Topping DX3 Pro and the Thinkpad T420s out (not blind tested).

That's my 2 cents. I am still fond of the HD 800S, but I've been crystal clear since I first compared the HD555 to HD660, that the HD555 is extremely good value, and I still like it a lot!
I leave the judgment on DAC/Amp to others. ;-)

happy holidays!
 
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Dimitri

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There are three types of headphones.
The ones I tried and don't like, the ones I haven't tried and the ones I own.
Well...ok. same rule applies to speakers :)
Not sure what is causing the increased lunacy regarding headphones.

I'll spare us the rant and just say this:
"wow, if having an ok setup and just making it 1-2 dB louder gives a better result than a > 1,800 US$ setup, then the latter is really just a waste..."
 

majingotan

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I quickly found out (is it true? - I don't know!) that I get the best sound from upgrading my headphones rather than optimizing my stereo speakers.

Whoever gave you that advice has never heard of a properly set up affordable near field speakers. They sound much more tonally correct as well as better in resolution than any headphone I’ve heard including the HD800S to my subjective opinion
 
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