My first visit to Axpona; The emperor has no clothes?

[ivayvr]

"I'm going through this exercise myself and am astounded at how unaccommodating and uninformed higher end shop employees are "
I believe that they are trying to explain to you what you should like, not to let you hear what you like...

 

[Johnkeizer]

Back in the day when there were hifi stores around, I recall one line sales people used when the switched in a more expensive component- Hear that deeper bass/ airier treble/ faster slam?
Admitting you couldn’t usually got you a dismissive sneer and the suggestion that you were deaf or stupid, probably both.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

Generally, it takes a really good 5.0 or 5.1 setup to evoke something like the feeling of a live performance

Yup -- IMO no 2.0 or 2.1 system can create a sense of spaciousness like a carefully curated and adjusted (mostly to accommodate how the source recording was engineered) multi-speaker setup can.

 

[Midwest Blade]

I'd love to know how many, if any, presenters at AXPONA calibrated their systems and used room EQ DSP.

In my quick trip through the show on Friday at least a couple of the speaker presenters mentioned what they were dealing with and tried to address the acoustic issues in the rooms. I applaud any effort by the presenters in this action, however, it really comes to mind that these shows are more about “look and see what we have”. I heard a lot of good speakers sounding pretty so so, and a few that were pretty good, generally it is a bit hit and miss.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Yup -- IMO no 2.0 or 2.1 system can create a sense of spaciousness like a carefully curated and adjusted (mostly to accommodate how the source recording was engineered) multi-speaker setup can.

Probably, but are either accurate? Or could they ever be?
I appreciate that with electronically generated music it can be accurate to the mix because that is all there is but with traditional recordings and accoustic music?

Clearly we have been getting a sense of space from a 2-way systems to a greater or lesser extent for decades but that is either manipulated in mixing or semi accurate in recording because of too few microphones to define all the real space. This is evident by how big a change in imaging we get just by moving a speaker to a different location in the room, or moving furniture, amongst other things.

On top of that in a multi channel system how precisely do the extra channel loudspeakers need placing, in angle at least, relative to the listener to have any hope of recreating the space as opposed to simply creating some sort of a spatial experience?

If all multi channel does is create an equally fake but bigger or just deeper sense of space it isn't worth the money, encumberment of faff IMO

 

[jcarys]

You may not realize it, because it isn't what you meant, but the actual room may be what you were hearing as much as anything.

Thanks, I understand room acoustics quite well, after 50 years experience with home and studio audio. I was using "room" in the generic sense, but many of the exhibitors at Axpona do have at least partial treatment for their presentations. But I don't for one minute believe that equipment doesn't matter. Yes, the differences among well designed electronics are becoming smaller each year, but they aren't zero, and there can still be issues with compatability between gear. When you get to speakers and headphones, there are obviously a huge variety of designs and results.

 

[DSJR]

Particularly since musicality is a characteristic of the performance on a recording, not any hardware.

I'd disagree with that, as a little band limiting, just enough subliminal noise, very gentle compression, maybe the gentlest touch of added wow if a vinyl player and even order harmonics amongst other things can add to the musical 'tune playing' experience. Make the bandwidth too wide, too much distortion above 20kHz (which sometimes *appeared* to modulate down to borderline audible frequencies) and especially bordering odd-order harmonics and it's a recipe for a non-involving experience, even if the overall measurements aren't too bad...

We're spoiled now though, as much of the above seems to be understood by those who need to know and sensibilities are more stable today apart from the very high end where products HAVE to be different to be noticed

 

[krabapple]

Thanks, I understand room acoustics quite well, after 50 years experience with home and studio audio. I was using "room" in the generic sense, but many of the exhibitors at Axpona do have at least partial treatment for their presentations. But I don't for one minute believe that equipment doesn't matter.

Much depends on the type of equipment.

Yes, the differences among well designed electronics are becoming smaller each year, but they aren't zero, and there can still be issues with compatability between gear.

Non-zero doesn't mean audible. No one should be 'mismatching' gear.

Repeating all this again is tiresome. And ASR isn't the place to be waving a golden ear flag.

 

[jcarys]

Much depends on the type of equipment.



Non-zero doesn't mean audible. No one should be 'mismatching' gear.

Repeating all this again is tiresome. And ASR isn't the place to be waving a golden ear flag.

I'm out - I'm not "waving a golden ear flag", that is your projection on my comments.
But just because I believe in objective measurements does not mean that all devices sound the same, or are of equal performance.
That is reductionism ad absurdum.

 

[rk-d]

New to this website. I stumbled on this thread looking to see if anyone else had a similar experience. I went to the show with a strongly favorable bias, expecting (wanting?) to hear some incredible systems. Visually, many of these systems looked incredible. Most of them - the vast majority in fact - sounded terrible. Wooly bass, harsh treble and shouty midrange. Even in rooms where I sat in the sweet spot were poorly done.

I recognize the difficulty in setting up these rooms, but the praise that these rooms were generating despite the really poor quality sound was a major disconnect. Literally, I thought, "the emperor has no clothes".

Wilson was probably the worst offender. I really wanted to like them, but they were just not great. Dutch and Dutch, Dynaudio, Joseph Audio, among others, were strong I thought.

 

[Ropeburn]

You wouldn't? I guess that explains my hi-fi.