You wouldn't? I guess that explains my hi-fi.
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My first visit to Axpona; The emperor has no clothes?
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ivayvr
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I believe that they would notice the difference if their hearing is fine. They would ask themselves: How come that the system is suddenly sounding so good?
I tend to believe that there is no money to be made in the "Lo-Fi" (price wise) unless made in China in huge numbers.
To make some money, hi end manufacturers are competing in the appearance of their equipment that is exuding luxury, exclusivity, extravagance, that does not have any relationship with the sound quality. Then the creative marketing and audio press push it farther...We have numerous examples of that in all groups of equipment. Lately, we have so many DACs costing $200, having a better performance than the DACs costing 50 or 100 times more....
kemmler3D
Master Contributor
I agree with you except for one thing, the marketing for super-expensive audio equipment is only creative in the sense that it often departs from reality. As a whole it's incredibly formulaic and predictable. Maybe you could not switch out the guts of these speakers with a Genelec, but you could really switch the names between a lot of the marketing copy for a lot of hi-fi equipment and nobody would notice.
"black background" this, "soul of the music" that, it's pretty much always the same.
Say what you want about Schiit but at least they have a recognizable approach to how they talk about their products.
ivayvr
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Schiit is not from the group I had in mind while writing my comment above.
I was writing about the equipment starting at five figures and above where marketing is making you feeling like an ignorant midget not knowing what you are missing.
Add to that some stellar review written by our Herbie from the Stereophile, and there is no way out. You have to have it! Especially if you have the money!
I tend to believe that our musician friend who started the thread remained unimpressed is because he knew what to listen for and it was not there.
I was writing about the equipment starting at five figures and above where marketing is making you feeling like an ignorant midget not knowing what you are missing.
Add to that some stellar review written by our Herbie from the Stereophile, and there is no way out. You have to have it! Especially if you have the money!
I tend to believe that our musician friend who started the thread remained unimpressed is because he knew what to listen for and it was not there.
Or, the room acoustics were crap.
I'd put more trust in spinorama results and other objective measures, than 'auditions' in strange spaces conducted by merchants.
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Mine's more like a coral reef or a jellyfish, I guess...
kemmler3D
Master Contributor
Yes, I understand, I was just mentioning Schiit as a brand that doesn't follow the same tired formula, that was not clear from how I phrased it. But as you note they're also marketing to people with smaller budgets.
My favourite is 'Unrivalled musicality'. Ignoring that there are twenty rivals, around the same price point, all claiming the same thing.
kemmler3D
Master Contributor
Words that don't have a specific legally actionable definition tend to be popular in marketing copy. My previous CMO would say "most is a must" in that you must always use a superlative in marketing copy. You'll notice this rule is basically always followed in hi-fi ads. The way to accomplish this without getting sued is to use subjective superlatives like "best" or confusing synonyms like "unrivalled".
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The implication of a need for a musicality smack-down is basically self-evident, isn't it?
It's how I'd write copy for my product too. But I don't think I'd look at the relatively small and ludicrously over-crowded high end hi-fi market and think 'I want a piece of that.'
jcarys
Active Member
Not to be rude, but if you went to Axpona and didn't hear at least one room that impressed you, then the issue is you. As you said, you can save a lot of money. Last year, I heard dozens of rooms that I thought were very impressive. Obviously a lot of them are out of my price or sheer size range (for speakers). There are plenty of OK or average rooms, but there are also lots that are excellent.
I tend to think of audio shows like Axpona like I did with a couple other industries I worked with that did the hotel room show thing, I'd just go for business reasons rather than the wares particularly and that the rooms generally aren't the best suited to purpose for such. OTOH I was thinking about Axpona particularly, seeing the various posts in audio fora/groups recently, as I used to live/work in the area and probably as close as I've ever lived to such an event. I suspect I'd come away generally unimpressed, but the chance to chuckle at SR and the other goofy stuff might be entertaining.
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There is such a thing as too much technology.
I blame the facility more than the gear. As @sigbergaudio notes, they were trying to set up the Sigbergs in a room that minutes before was running a (very good, best of show that I heard sound IMO) immersive setup.
But maybe they should’ve had a Monoprice HTP-1 in the room instead of the Storm, lol.
It’s better to audition speakers at home ( or in your own studio) with proper setup, with room EQ etc .
Many of the best speakers can sound a bit underwhelming and bland , due to the hotel room . And mostly due to the lack of “showroom sound” that detailed and exciting sound that sounds impressive at first but very tiresome in the long run .
Good neutral speakers can come off as bland in short comparison with a “show room sound” speaker in an unfamiliar room or in a shop.
But at home in its normal use case the neutral speakers wins the day .
Many of the best speakers can sound a bit underwhelming and bland , due to the hotel room . And mostly due to the lack of “showroom sound” that detailed and exciting sound that sounds impressive at first but very tiresome in the long run .
Good neutral speakers can come off as bland in short comparison with a “show room sound” speaker in an unfamiliar room or in a shop.
But at home in its normal use case the neutral speakers wins the day .
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But these speakers “punch above their weight” are “class leaders” or “giant killers” or even “giant giant killers”.
The rooms at AXPONA are very expensive. So we weren't supposed to show there at all, but ended up with sharing the room. Otherwise we'd have a dedicated room or at least a dedicated 2-channel room (like at the Florida show recently were they alternated between the Sigbergs and the Grimms on a more simple setup).
Anyway, they were running part of the time, and for the rest of the time at least one could have a look at the system.
I am sorry you missed it, and thank you for taking the time to come by!
Particularly since musicality is a characteristic of the performance on a recording, not any hardware.
Chris A
Senior Member
I've not heard any audio show setups that evoked much emotional response...or even a feeling that I liked what I was listening to. All experiences took mental effort on my part to "translate" what I was hearing to give credit for the possibility of the loudspeakers/room being set up well enough to actually demonstrate what I thought they might be able to do (at home).
The best I heard at a show was in the smaller ballrooms where the dimensions of the room were greater than ~4m in each of the three directions (w, d, h). But even then, the sound was pretty mundane. Cone-and-dome loudspeakers all tended to sound the same (no wow factor), and the planar loudspeakers all seemed to have real limitations in terms of dynamics reproduced (if any were actually trying to reproduce dynamics using music selections selected).
Nothing sounded as good as what I listened to at home--not even close. My wife made the same remarks--totally unprompted by any comments I made.
So to validate your experience, I don't believe that people really go to these shows with calibrated ears to hear something spectacular like real performance. Rather I think they are feasting on the visual displays and letting their "synesthesia" of eye-brain experience overwhelm their otherwise capable live-performance audio judgment.
And the music I heard at shows was uniformly not what I'd pick to demonstrate the performance of loudspeakers and/or room acoustics. (And demonstrating electronics capabilities is pretty much impossible where there isn't even time spent on fixing room acoustics issues.)
Overall, I was really underwhelmed--even trying to give credit to those loudspeakers that I knew should sound good.
Lastly, you mentioned that you are a "musician first". I find that little effort is spent by show personnel to try to reproduce a sound that mimics actual soundstages of a real auditorium and live acoustic instrumentation. Musicians that are used to performing in these type of venues are usually completely disappointed by what they hear. Even trying to reproduce small ensembles or singer-small combo jazz concerts will be a disappointment for those that are used to hearing "the real thing".
Go to a large pipe organ performance in a good hall/venue playing Bach preludes and fugues at performance levels approaching 95+ dB in peaks, and listen for the "wow" factor. If the instrument is setup in a good acoustic environment, that performance will blow you away. I've not heard anything even remotely approaching that kind of experience in a hi-fi demonstration room using the type of loudspeakers technologies that I described above; they simply can't handle the demands of that kind of performance.
Listen for the smoothness and room-filling acoustic image of a live full orchestra string section, then go listen to virtually any recording of the same in a hi-fi room, and you'll hear nothing but defects in timbre, soundstage, edge/harshness of loudspeakers and/or recordings trying to reproduce the real thing. You're going to be disappointed.
Chris
Johnkeizer
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I have heard mega buck systems demonstrated by the dealers and they still can’t convince me I am listening to a real live guitar, never mind anything larger
