My first theater room and in-wall speaker choice

[sniarn]

Hi everyone,

I'm planning my first real dedicated theater room and I'm conflicted about the choice of in-wall speakers. I'm going back and forward whether to choose JBL Synthesis or DALI Phantom M speakers. I understand the DALIs are much more expensive in the US, but where I live the price is very comparable. My room is roughly 15 ft x 20 ft (or 4.5m x 6m in metric) and I plan to construct a second set of stud walls in front of the existing walls with rockwool in the cavities for both acoustic and isolation purposes.

Here's what I'm concidering:

1. JBL Synthesis
   1. 3 x SCL-6 for LCR
   2. 4 x SCL-6 or SCL-7 for surrounds
2. DALI Phantom
   1. 3 x M-675 for LCR
   2. 4 x M-375 for surrounds

The DALI's are bigger speakers and have an integrated back box, whereas the JBL's are smaller and have an open-back design. More expensive speakers in the Synthesis line have the integrated back box, but not the SCL-6 or SCL-7. On the other hand, the JBLs have horn tweeters, which I hear is better for a dynamic theater sound. I haven't ever heard the JBLs, so I don't have much to go on. I've had DALI speakers for years and have been pretty happy with them. On the face of it, the DALI's seem to offer more for the money, but I worry that the JBL's horn design will make it a better choice.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

[Everett T]

Hi everyone,

I'm planning my first real dedicated theater room and I'm conflicted about the choice of in-wall speakers. I'm going back and forward whether to choose JBL Synthesis or DALI Phantom M speakers. I understand the DALIs are much more expensive in the US, but where I live the price is very comparable. My room is roughly 15 ft x 20 ft (or 4.5m x 6m in metric) and I plan to construct a second set of stud walls in front of the existing walls with rockwool in the cavities for both acoustic and isolation purposes.

Here's what I'm concidering:

1. JBL Synthesis
   1. 3 x SCL-6 for LCR
   2. 4 x SCL-6 or SCL-7 for surrounds
2. DALI Phantom
   1. 3 x M-675 for LCR
   2. 4 x M-375 for surrounds

The DALI's are bigger speakers and have an integrated back box, whereas the JBL's are smaller and have an open-back design. More expensive speakers in the Synthesis line have the integrated back box, but not the SCL-6 or SCL-7. On the other hand, the JBLs have horn tweeters, which I hear is better for a dynamic theater sound. I haven't ever heard the JBLs, so I don't have much to go on. I've had DALI speakers for years and have been pretty happy with them. On the face of it, the DALI's seem to offer more for the money, but I worry that the JBL's horn design will make it a better choice.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Personally I'd be consider Kef or Perlisten, they have no issues with reference levels and their measurements are extremely nice, FWIW.

 

[IngMishael]

I'm planning my first real dedicated theater room and I'm conflicted about the choice of in-wall speakers. I'm going back and forward whether to choose JBL Synthesis or DALI Phantom M speakers. I understand the DALIs are much more expensive in the US, but where I live the price is very comparable. My room is roughly 15 ft x 20 ft (or 4.5m x 6m in metric) and I plan to construct a second set of stud walls in front of the existing walls with rockwool in the cavities for both acoustic and isolation purposes.

Here's what I'm concidering:

1. JBL Synthesis
   1. 3 x SCL-6 for LCR
   2. 4 x SCL-6 or SCL-7 for surrounds
2. DALI Phantom
   1. 3 x M-675 for LCR
   2. 4 x M-375 for surrounds

The DALI's are bigger speakers and have an integrated back box, whereas the JBL's are smaller and have an open-back design. More expensive speakers in the Synthesis line have the integrated back box, but not the SCL-6 or SCL-7. On the other hand, the JBLs have horn tweeters, which I hear is better for a dynamic theater sound. I haven't ever heard the JBLs, so I don't have much to go on. I've had DALI speakers for years and have been pretty happy with them. On the face of it, the DALI's seem to offer more for the money, but I worry that the JBL's horn design will make it a better choice.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

how much are you getting them?

 

[sniarn]

how much are you getting them?

The LCRs are both listed around 15.000 DKK or 2.300 USD a piece. I expect around a 10-15% discount or somewhere around there.

 

[sniarn]

Personally I'd be consider Kef or Perlisten, they have no issues with reference levels and their measurements are extremely nice, FWIW.

The Perlistens look very nice. E.g., the R5i-LR as LCRs. But also a lot more expensive, unfortunately.

 

[IngMishael]

get the JBL but yeah if you can find the Ci3160 or Ci5160 from KEF for similar costs, get that. If not the JBL is excellent regardless I'm just a sucker for coaxial designs

The LCRs are both listed around 15.000 DKK or 2.300 USD a piece. I expect around a 10-15% discount or somewhere around there.

 

[sniarn]

get the JBL but yeah if you can find the Ci3160 or Ci5160 from KEF for similar costs, get that. If not the JBL is excellent regardless I'm just a sucker for coaxial designs

Would you please explain why you prefer the JBLs to the DALIs?

 

[Timcognito]

KEF Ci3160RLM-THX In-Wall Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the KEF Ci3160RLM-THX in-wall home theater speaker using their meta materials. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $2,230 (each). The Ci3160RLM-THX, unlike many in-wall speakers, looks quite nice without its grill so I chose to test it...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[sniarn]

KEF Ci3160RLM-THX In-Wall Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the KEF Ci3160RLM-THX in-wall home theater speaker using their meta materials. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $2,230 (each). The Ci3160RLM-THX, unlike many in-wall speakers, looks quite nice without its grill so I chose to test it...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Why on earth would they make those available in silver only? I'm thinking of mounting the L and R speakers next to the projector screen because I like to see my speakers, but there's no way I'd mount speakers that are that visibly distracting.

 

[IngMishael]

Would you please explain why you prefer the JBLs to the DALIs?

have not heard Dali in walls and my experience with DALI is lukewarm at best for their box speakers. So I'd rather recommend you get the industry leaders in JBL who I have heard their SCL series in a home and they're incredible or the KEF which are magnificent

 

[sniarn]

have not heard Dali in walls and my experience with DALI is lukewarm at best for their box speakers. So I'd rather recommend you get the industry leaders in JBL who I have heard their SCL series in a home and they're incredible or the KEF which are magnificent

Thank you. One thing I'm unsure about is the lack of an integrated back box. It's my impression that speakers with an integrated back box are "easier" to install because it doesn't matter much what kind of wall or cavity they're installed in. That, and they don't bleed as much sound into neighboring rooms.

I'm not a professional installer, and am doing this for the first time.

 

[IngMishael]

Thank you. One thing I'm unsure about is the lack of an integrated back box. It's my impression that speakers with an integrated back box are "easier" to install because it doesn't matter much what kind of wall or cavity they're installed in. That, and they don't bleed as much sound into neighboring rooms.

I'm not a professional installer, and am doing this for the first time.

I think reaching out to KEF or JBL about how to create the cavities is ideal.

 

[Ellebob]

Better companies will tell you the ideal volume of their speaker if an open back design. I make the cavity larger. Line it with acoustiblock (AKA MLV - Mass Loaded Vinyl) and then use insulation to fill the cavity as needed to get the best performance. It is not too hard but you do need to measure or possibly the auto EQ of your receiver/processor will do it. I remove the speaker add or subtract insulation and measure again. Takes a little time but not bad. Performance can be very good out of inexpensive in wall speakers.
can

 

[kyuu]

Thank you. One thing I'm unsure about is the lack of an integrated back box. It's my impression that speakers with an integrated back box are "easier" to install because it doesn't matter much what kind of wall or cavity they're installed in. That, and they don't bleed as much sound into neighboring rooms.

It may help with sound isolation a bit, but the problem with in-walls with integrated back boxes is that they are, as a rule, just too small which adversely affects the bass response. It's inevitably going to be so when you are limited to the dimensions of the speaker's baffle plus a few inches of depth in order to fit in your standard wall cavity. Open-back in-walls generally perform better, and as long as the cavities you build are of roughly the same volume as your standard wall cavity (80 liters plus or minus) then they should work fine. I would limit sound transmission other ways, such as lining the cavities with some sort of MLV product, insulation, and possibly using other sound isolation strategies if practical (constrained layer damping using two layers of sheetrock with green glue between them, etc.).

I also will second that Dali makes questionably performing box speakers and therefore their in-walls are also suspect and in-walls are an area where you want to be sure the speaker's designers knew what they were doing and weren't just slapping some drivers onto a plastic baffle with a basic crossover and calling it a day. JBL is a serious speaker company and we have measurements of their Synthesis line that confirm they know what they're doing.

 

[Everett T]

The Perlistens look very nice. E.g., the R5i-LR as LCRs. But also a lot more expensive, unfortunately.

Going for good in-walls isn't cheap. other than Kef, my other choices are more expensive. The JBLs would be my next choice but IMHO you need to have good DSP, FWIW.

 

[kyuu]

Revel's in-walls are also excellent (I'm using their cheaper W553L as LCR and they're wonderful for the price; they have higher-end models of course), but they may not be easily available in your market.

 

[GS430man]

I'm not aware of good bass response from any quality in-wall speakers - JBL, KEF, Perlisten, etc. They all assume you are using one or more subwoofers and will high pass the speakers above 80Hz or so.

Maybe your dealer has some ideas.

 

[kyuu]

Bass response is affected by the too-small back boxes well above 80Hz. For example:

There are certainly in-walls with relatively deep bass extension as well: