I sidelined my idea to try the CSS Critons, If I have room and feel like taking on a beastly project like the 1099s or 1299s I guess I could see the appeal, though those speakers usually need EQ with response like a rollercoaster..........
I sidelined my idea to try the CSS Critons, If I have room and feel like taking on a beastly project like the 1099s or 1299s I guess I could see the appeal, though those speakers usually need EQ with response like a rollercoaster..........
A DYI speaker could turn out well if it was done using a tried-and-true design. To try to build a speaker that works well by guess work is sheer folly.I'm kind of wondering what the OP's point is. Design is by definition an iterative process, and it isn't for everyone. And speaker design and speaker performance is highly subjective.
The reason why someone is attempting DIY is another question. I am highly skeptical that an individual can save money while matching or exceeding the quality of a mass produced product by DIY. Especially for a budget speaker.
But I think there is a financial advantage to pursuing a high end build, because high end speakers are low volume products, meaning your costs are more similar to the manfacturer's costs. But it still takes a lot of time to design the speaker, and making the critical decisions is always harder when you are paying for the materials...
I'm building a design that doesn't exist, or atleast the closest things to it that do exist are miles out of my price range. So I potentially get something unique and high quality for a relatively low price, but it costs me considerable time and energy.
Of course starting out with a challenging project is it's own issue, so to do it right you should do multiple small projects to build experience...and at that point you might as well forget about the "saving money" incentive for DIY.
But on the other hand, any speaker you build will be the best speaker in the world, atleast to you, atleast until you build something else that you think is better!
At that point you'd have to put it in a weird swoopy cabinet and sell it for a fortuneA DYI speaker could turn out well if it was done using a tried-and-true design. To try to build a speaker that works well by guess work is sheer folly.
I just chanced upon this post and have now gone through all the responses. Since the responses cover pretty much everything with all levels of advices we can receive, I had thought of giving it a skip but then felt compelled to add my notes for whatever they are worth.Howdy, I don't feel this website....
I agree with other peoples suggestions, in that it is important to keep a main/reference system functional so that you can use it, and then you can DIY on the side. I made the same mistake when I was younger with cars, in that my cars ended up off the road for so long whilst I was fixing/upgrading them. Whilst I somewhat enjoyed the DIY experience and learning all the ins and outs of carbies/camshaft-specs/etc, if I had of just put the car in the workshop or bought one already finished, then I could have had much greater experiences from actually using the car a lot more.Ultimately though I find that building speakers has really cut into my enjoyment of music.
Fine, I see what you're saying ... here's my heightened FR version with scales included ...
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The FR variation 500 to 10k is no worse than about +/- 1.5 dB (yellow line) -- hardly terrible. Also, the on/off axis consistency is pretty decent. Overall not bad if not up to the top Genelec / Neumann benchmarks. EQ will render these small deviations irrelevant.
I agree with other peoples suggestions, in that it is important to keep a main/reference system functional so that you can use it, and then you can DIY on the side. I made the same mistake when I was younger with cars, in that my cars ended up off the road for so long whilst I was fixing/upgrading them. Whilst I somewhat enjoyed the DIY experience and learning all the ins and outs of carbies/camshaft-specs/etc, if I had of just put the car in the workshop or bought one already finished, then I could have had much greater experiences from actually using the car a lot more.
The off-axis response of good speakers trends generally down, like my black line. And they definitely don't have off-axis responses that peak higher than the on-axis, like the areas all my orange lines point at, and especially not at worst area my red line points at (2kHz-3kHz).
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Can we get back to the main topic of the Pit Viper not sounding good in its stock configuration and your measurements?I mean on offense but I find the whole comparison of a speakers performing better than commercial offerings at x price to be a bit tiresome. Stuff like "they punch above their weight" and the like I think I've heard spoken for just about every speaker these days. If the advent of easily accessible analysis has taught us anything it's that companies are making some pretty bad speakers at every price point. You can get a pair of Behringer 2031a for less than the Amigas and with some EQ, they are simply better. Both speakers need EQ IMO anyway.
So far my favorite PE kit would be the C-notes, I honestly find the performance you get to be crazy for the low cost. I'm personally in agreement with Heissmann Acoustics that even dispersion (his site calls it bundling behavior) is likely one of the most important aspects of a speaker and I think it's something a lot of designs don't incorporate. Who cares if you can make a speaker flat on axis, that's easy. Give it smooth directivity index as well, now that's much harder.
If you're curious I did some amiga measurements long ago. I don't consider them to measure particularly well and listening wise I find imaging quite troublesome as well as brightness I can't get rid of which I assume is the off axis bloom centered around 4-5k. I think the drivers could have been integrated better.
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As for pit viper, I did have stock xover. Didn't think it measured right at all and it sounded really bright, no body to anything likely from the lower mid dip, not sure why the mid was sloping down like that. Granted I couldn't really line up the speaker with the center on my little measurement turntable as the speakers are so big and heavy. It's still just kind of a mess IMO. Bass is what it is, done outside but I can only raise the speakers so high. The designer didn't chime in on this one when I shared the info on parts express forum so I don't really know what to make of it. I kind of assumed it was an intentional tuning to account for being put on the floor, which I didn't do as they needed to be at tweeter+ear height.
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This is a tweeter in waveguide that I made an adapter for that I was working on. I gave it to a friend as I was kinda overwhelmed with different projects. This is on an 8" baffle with no round overs. I find this to be impressive performance compared to the other designs above which I'd argue offer poor tweeter performance resulting in degraded stereo image. I utilized it in a two way for awhile and it sounded great.
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So perhaps I've just been picking the wrong designs to build
I have seen this claimed several times over the years. Interestingly, 100% of the time it was claimed by an engineer.....There’s a vast amount of material to familiarize oneself with, and without formal training in engineering, mastering the art is virtually impossible...
I've heard of local clubs that meet to host lectures or "show and tell" of member projects. Parts Express hosts a speaker design competition. There's also the Midwest Audio Club--I thought they were mostly defunct, but they apparently just hosted a speaker competition in October. So there are some opportunities for direct interaction with others in the hobby.That said, I’ve found the hobby significantly lacking in structured opportunities for learning.
Honestly I misread and thought he posted just a couple months ago......The original poster have been back to ASR since August 15, 2023.
Haha, yeah, I was actually looking forward to his response to you, and then realized he hadn't replied to many of the earlier postsHonestly I misread and thought he posted just a couple months ago......![]()
Well, we need to list what qualities are needed for some chances of success:I have seen this claimed several times over the years. Interestingly, 100% of the time it was claimed by an engineer.