My DIY Multi-Speaker / Multi-Sub auto optimizer

[tifune]

If that's a USB mic then simply don't... unfortunately. They can be used for some other stuff but they are not a good candidate for this use case. Also, I know some of you probably have very impressive systems. Don't skimp on the mic! The entire system can only be as accurate as your mic.

Any specific mic you recommend?

 

[umamiaudio]

Any specific mic you recommend?

Personally I use Earthworks M23R

 

[dziemian]

Hmm. Does it mean I cant use your software unless I buy an xlr microphone and an interface with both xlr analog input and outputs? I use okto dac without analog inputs (aes only) and umik-1 mic. For Dirac that was ok. I mean I can buy a simple xlr interface and a good microphone for a measurement but I dont want to change Okto dac to something else

 

[levimax]

Here is a link as to why a UMIK-1, which is fine for FR measurements, is not really suitable for timing measurements. https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/acoustic-phase-measurements.13300/#post-99941 It does look like the UMIK-2 is OK for timing measurments but not sure if it is suitable for this program, maybe OP can let us know. I had a UMIK-1 and upgraded to a Earthworks M20. The M20 is certainly worth the money based on physical quality, noise, head room, distortion, and ability to use without a calibration file, but it is not necessary to spend that much, you just have to be much more careful and aware of the MIC's limitations and work within them. For me personally I have never regretted buying "good tools" that will last a lifetime and that I get to enjoy every time I use them, but economic realities exist.

 

[dziemian]

But buying a good quality xlr microphone appears to be only a part of the problem. It looks like you have to use the same interface for measurement and listening to the music. For me it is a no go solution unless @umamiaudio works with at least UMIK-2 and let us work with our DACs.

 

[umamiaudio]

It was designed with mixing / mastering engineers in mind (that's my background and why it's in VST AU format) and a duplex interface is something that we would normally already have. You can always go digital out from your interface to you DAC. If your device has AES input (as in it allows recording and has ASIO support) you could try to find a mic pre with AES output.Don't forget to make sure you've selected the correct clock source.

 

[john61ct]

Yes a few separate issues here.

UMIK-1 no good for timing accuracy, aming USB mic's UMIK-2 is great.

Among XLR mic's no need to spend lotsa money, see

GSonic Reference – Free Stereo Room Correction Tool (Measurement + FIR Export)

My setup is Audy mic connected to Soundcard, and output is from PC over HDMI to AVR (SR6013), via WDM. With Gsonic, the output levels are REALLY low, so low that I need to set volume on PC to 100%, and then also on AVR unusually high, like -15db or so, much much higher than I need to set with...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Third, using a 2-way interface, mic and output on the same clock

always the better way to go

required by several high-quality measurement tools

otherwise variable latency issues can reduce accuracy.

 

[umamiaudio]

Here is a link as to why a UMIK-1, which is fine for FR measurements, is not really suitable for timing measurements. https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/acoustic-phase-measurements.13300/#post-99941 It does look like the UMIK-2 is OK for timing measurments but not sure if it is suitable for this program, maybe OP can let us know. I had a UMIK-1 and upgraded to a Earthworks M20. The M20 is certainly worth the money based on physical quality, noise, head room, distortion, and ability to use without a calibration file, but it is not necessary to spend that much, you just have to be much more careful and aware of the MIC's limitations and work within them. For me personally I have never regretted buying "good tools" that will last a lifetime and that I get to enjoy every time I use them, but economic realities exist.

I might be wrong, but I think earthwork doesn't provide a 90 deg cal file, which is needed for surround calibrations. For stereo, I don't think you can find a better mic.

 

[john61ct]

There are sound labs - sometimes even local ones - that can calibrate three or more angles for you.

Usually costs more than I would spend on the mic itself.

.TXT, .DBL, .WAV, are relatively "open / standard" calibration file formats

rePhase can import and export any of those

REW can not import or export .DBL files. But it can export .WAV or .TXT

Acourate does all 3

 

[dziemian]

I guess I would stick to Dirac DLBC and ART now. It looks I would have to change the whole measurement and listening setup at the moment.

 

[levimax]

My Motu Ultralite Mk5 can use be used as both an interface and recording device as long as both applications are either ASIO or Windows. It won't work with "mixed". Since my digital crossovers are done in ASIO the measurements also have to be ASIO. Is this software ASIO?

 

[umamiaudio]

The wizard uses ASIO drivers

 

[john61ct]

ASIO is the way to go to bypass windoze latency effects

when timing measurements, accuracy is important

 

[umamiaudio]

Yes a few separate issues here.

UMIK-1 no good for timing accuracy, aming USB mic's UMIK-2 is great.

Among XLR mic's no need to spend lotsa money, see

GSonic Reference – Free Stereo Room Correction Tool (Measurement + FIR Export)

My setup is Audy mic connected to Soundcard, and output is from PC over HDMI to AVR (SR6013), via WDM. With Gsonic, the output levels are REALLY low, so low that I need to set volume on PC to 100%, and then also on AVR unusually high, like -15db or so, much much higher than I need to set with...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Third, using a 2-way interface, mic and output on the same clock

always the better way to go

required by several high-quality measurement tools

otherwise variable latency issues can reduce accuracy.

The sound ID / sonarworks mic is basically the behringer $20 cal mic but comes with a file. It's quite noisy + I'm not sure how they calibrate their mics. Being FIR correction the noise level DOES affect the quality of the result. Will it work? 100%. Could it be better? Probably. There's some stuff I did to mitigate this but of course starting off better is just better. A part of the reason my sweeps are so long to begin with is I wanted signals with good SNR to work with, not "decent", not "passable". Personally, I've never actually tested it with a cheaper mic, but I'm sure the other people who are getting good results on discord are not all using earthworks.

 

[john61ct]

Yes the calibration process is critical and does add to the cost.

I would advise, if you do want to "encourage" your users to invest hundreds in a measurement mic

that you go to the effort of publishing credible empirical data on that investment being worthwhile.

So many experts whose opinions I trust, swear it is not necessary to get good results, to the point I'd call it a consensus.

Of course professionals may want an excellent quality mic anyway, doing EQ for a living, designing loudspeakers etc

But casual users would be better off adding the difference to their loudspeaker budget

 

[umamiaudio]

I'm not trying to encourage anything except for people to try my software. I'm only here to tell you the facts. The math stands that a better mic gives an objectively better result. If you've noticed, I've refrained from giving my opinion on anything. I know what I find acceptable and what I find not and where that line is, is different for everyone. Personally, I'm going for the most accurate system I can afford because it's my work, it's my passion, it's my addiction.

Also, those experts might be right for whatever algorithm they're using, but none of them are using my algorithm.

And you're absolutely right about the budget. If your entire budget was $600, then probably you're better off with the $20 or $90 mic. If your system costs $20,000 then it's probably a bad idea to be using in $20 or $90 mic and relying on that.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Is this software ASIO?

 

[Stingber09]

Hi, I just tested UA Perfect Soup with a 9.8.6 Atmos System. I never heard my room as cohesive and clear. Bass was precise and tight. Below you will find my before and after measurements. I plan to add a hardware block diagram soon.

System Calibrated:

System Uncalibrated:

System Calibrated with LFE:

System uncalibrated with subs:

Room Layout:

Left Front speaker Calibrated Decay Time:

LFE subs calibrated Decay Time:

Speech Transmission Index (STI) Analysis:

Umami Audio VST Plugin:

 

[dziemian]

Hi. What sofware have you used for your measurements? Especially for room layout?

 

[Stingber09]

Measurements Software: https://www.rationalacoustics.com/pages/about-smaart

Room Mode Calculator: https://www.vesalaasanen.com/

'Room simulator for non-shoebox rooms'
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/room-simulator-for-non-shoebox-rooms.69609/