Must a sealed subwoofer have DSP?

[Zeppelin]

How about you make a list from what whose been reviewed and measured hire and elsewhere instead? For that you use index - speakers and in table use price as a key and score as the reference. Then read the review and take a look at measurements for those you chose.

Master Audio Review Index

www.audiosciencereview.com

If I follow the link it shows me the total amount of tested devices in each category, but can't enter to a list of models nor brands to see what's exactly there. AM I doing something wrong?

Take an eye that they are 86 or more dB sensitive as that amplifier isn't exactly a powerhouse and you do need it to have headroom and not to be pushed to hard.

Good point.

You didn't say anything about those Pioneer SP-BS22-LR's and you won't find anything tonally as good for even twice their price from pasive one's that are wide available and relatively easy to get.

I don't remember having seen any to buy, but will take a second look.

I guess you are from Germany and if so plenty of shops and good offering along with second hand market. Of course take it easy and try to enjoy it.

Spain! Well, Catalonia in real, but let's say Spain.

If nor you nor @Chrispy say anything against any of the one mentioned in the list I asume it is because there isn't any of the speakers you know to deserved being kick off of the list. Must I keep thinking this? haha

 

[ZolaIII]

This is best I could find in Spain - Catalonia (with free shipping and possibility to return them if you don't like them and it's Spanish distributor/diler so valid warranty).

https://www.amazon.es/gp/aw/d/B09B7XF3Z9/ref=psdcmw_665476031_t2_B07J6B2W8H

They are tall and very deep but not very wide (T 37.59, D 35.05, W 21.59) and can (really) pass even without subwoofer (about 50 Hz - 4.5 dB). I hope you can fit them.
They are 6.5" back ported and you can't plug the ports but never mind that they aren't problematic placing close to the back wall as they have pasive diffusers over the port. They are relatively sensitive so I think that amplifier will be fine with them.

Polk Signature Elite ES20 Review (Bookshelf Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Polk Signature Elite ES20 bookshelf speaker. I purchased it from Amazon for US $349 a pair including shipping. I really like the look and finish of this series from Polk. Despite budget pricing, it looks nice and purposeful as you can tell...

www.audiosciencereview.com

They aren't best speakers ever out of the box but easy to EQ and with wide disposition all the way up to 10 KHz so they will feel the room nicely and pretty even without much need to aim them on horizontal axis, still put the height of the tweeter to the height of the ear.
Stock is low as they are on discount so if you like them be quick.
I must say market in Spain is horrible and even worse than where I live (BiH and which isn't easy to accomplish).
And that's the probably best that I can do and really not a bad deal.

 

[covd59]

From my little understanding , it doesn't need to have DSP.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I've read the thread. And it seems to me like you would be best off by buying a good pair of bookshelf speakers (looks like you are about to) and an SVS SB1000 Pro subwoofer.
I would then route the speaker out from your amplifier through the SVS and to your speakers. Then the crossover is automatically set (at 80 Hz).

Then I would play around with the SVS app (only the Pro SVS subs have app support) to get the best sound in your room. Your room does have some "modes" which means that at certain frequencies there will be either peaks or valleys where the sound at these frequencies get either louder or quieter. At these frequencies you can then use the app to smooth out so it sounds better.

 

[Zeppelin]

I've read the thread. And it seems to me like you would be best off by buying a good pair of bookshelf speakers (looks like you are about to) and an SVS SB1000 Pro subwoofer.
I would then route the speaker out from your amplifier through the SVS and to your speakers. Then the crossover is automatically set (at 80 Hz).
View attachment 273080

Then I would play around with the SVS app (only the Pro SVS subs have app support) to get the best sound in your room. Your room does have some "modes" which means that at certain frequencies there will be either peaks or valleys where the sound at these frequencies get either louder or quieter. At these frequencies you can then use the app to smooth out so it sounds better.
View attachment 273081

Thanks for reading all the thread. It is something to deserves being grated for.

But no, you understood it badly. I don't have SVS nor I will buy them. In fact I am kind of mad with all who come in a subwoofer thread and tell people to buy SVS 800€ subwoofers, when the thread creator is talking about spending a low amount (150-200€) on a subwoofer. It is obvious a SVS would sound much better, and even 3 on your room, but some of us an't afford even one. That said, I am not saying you did that, because it isn't what happend. Just misunderstood something.

The thread kinda died here and continues with another focus on another thread, in ause you are interested: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/probably-my-2-1-system.43050/#post-1524481

As you pointed out this way of conneting the speakers I want to ask you which is the advantage of doing so. In a subwoofer with DSP it is obvious which is the advantage, but why in a subwoofer whithour DSP which would be the advantage of conecting active or passive-through-amp speakers?

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Thanks for reading all the thread. It is something to deserves being grated for.

But no, you understood it badly. I don't have SVS nor I will buy them. In fact I am kind of mad with all who come in a subwoofer thread and tell people to buy SVS 800€ subwoofers, when the thread creator is talking about spending a low amount (150-200€) on a subwoofer. It is obvious a SVS would sound much better, and even 3 on your room, but some of us an't afford even one. That said, I am not saying you did that, because it isn't what happend. Just misunderstood something.

The thread kinda died here and continues with another focus on another thread, in ause you are interested: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/probably-my-2-1-system.43050/#post-1524481

As you pointed out this way of conneting the speakers I want to ask you which is the advantage of doing so. In a subwoofer with DSP it is obvious which is the advantage, but why in a subwoofer whithour DSP which would be the advantage of conecting active or passive-through-amp speakers?

Okay. The Sb1000 pro goes for around 400 USD used where I am at.
The advantage is what I wrote above. That you don't have to set up the crossover point as that is built into the sub. Your signal goes in the sub, the sub handles the signal below 80 Hz and sends the signal above 80 Hz out to your speakers.
In the app you csn counter the room modes with the DSP / EQ.

 

[ZolaIII]

Okay. The Sb1000 pro goes for around 400 USD used where I am at.
The advantage is what I wrote above. That you don't have to set up the crossover point as that is built into the sub. Your signal goes in the sub, the sub handles the signal below 80 Hz and sends the signal above 80 Hz out to your speakers.
In the app you csn counter the room modes with the DSP / EQ.

The SVS 1000 Pro series doesn't have high pass filter at all, the non pro has fixed one on 80 Hz trough low level I/O.
Has a bit better driver and tuning (Linkwitz transform) so it goes both little lower and 3 dB higher SPL, a gimmick A stage 25W (used more as a buffer) and three deep/peek PEQ's which is far from enough while software is still really buggy. If it's worth 150$ more compared to non Pro you need to decide yourself.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

The SVS 1000 Pro series doesn't have high pass filter at all, the non pro has fixed one on 80 Hz trough low level I/O.
Has a bit better driver and tuning (Linkwitz transform) so it goes both little lower and 3 dB higher SPL, a gimmick A stage 25W (used more as a buffer) and three deep/peek PEQ's which is far from enough while software is still really buggy. If it's worth 150$ more compared to non Pro you need to decide yourself.

Damn, you are right! The new one doesn't have high pass.
Have had several non pros and they all had it, so when I saw the back on the new ones I assumed wrong.
Still the ability to get rid of the worst mode without having to buy minidsp or another EQ may be worth it if you don't have an AVR.

 

[Zeppelin]

Okay. The Sb1000 pro goes for around 400 USD used where I am at.

Where I am there is no second hand SVS pro available, and the non-Pro version of SB1000 is about 500€.

The advantage is what I wrote above. That you don't have to set up the crossover point as that is built into the sub. Your signal goes in the sub, the sub handles the signal below 80 Hz and sends the signal above 80 Hz out to your speakers.
In the app you csn counter the room modes with the DSP / EQ.

Ah ok, now I get it. Could it be a goow way to connect the speakers+amp+sub in the way I am going to porpouse? The line out to the sub, and then to speakers? I was wondering way there are those "Speaker out" connectors, and maybe it is because this.

Would the speakers sound better if I free them of the lower frequencies? I received contradictory answers about this question.

@ZolaIII It seems to me the Linkwitz came before the DSP began to be implementate in subwoofer. Like Linkwitz was the digital prefered solution on subwoofers until DSP arrives as a built-in. Is it this way?

 

[sarumbear]

Learning about the Subwoofer world, I have read that DSP is specially desired on sealed subwoofers.

As I am doubting about which second-hand subwoofer I am going to buy this question it's fundamental.

What do you think?

Most sealed subwoofers use digital (DSP) or analogue equalisation as it’s difficult to design a driver that works flat Dow to infrasonic frequencies without EQ. Ported subwoofers are easier to design due to constraints placed on drivers using the usual materials but still a bit of EQ will make the response flatter.

Having said that a DSP that has user control will be helpful in handling your room acoustics.

 

[ZolaIII]

Ufff high pass is a cut/tame filter in dB octave slope form. It does stress out the main speakers and the cabinet less by lowering excursion of woffer driver on them and producing less refractions and THD in cabinets. No you don't get it all filters can be implemented analog (electronic design as it whose done for a very long time) or digital (DSP as specialised architecture for signal processing or on more general architectures like micro processors as it's still mostly done and software implemented). Linkwitz transform is just one of the filters (a bit more complex to do properly) and only for closed enclosure designs.
Even if the subwoofer have high level (high current speaker direct) I/O it will be a pass trough (no hi pass filter or anything) and it's not a best way to go disreging (adds impedance and distortion). Without much complications it's better to go lo level I/O trough sub (source DAC out to sub, sub out to power amplifier input) and volume control after you tune and match the sub on source DAC or digital volume controls on whatever (PC for example). Best way is separate DAC out LFE to sub and L, R chenel to power amplifier as you loose least and have better control (more freedom to implement all filters as you like). For that of course you need to have DAC with more than two channels of course and (if it's not really bad) a integrated sound card on desktop PC will do just fine (you lose a bit of output power compared to proper unbalanced DAC 2V line out and it won't be a top notch performer that's all).

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Where I am there is no second hand SVS pro available, and the non-Pro version of SB1000 is about 500€.

Ah ok, now I get it. Could it be a goow way to connect the speakers+amp+sub in the way I am going to porpouse? The line out to the sub, and then to speakers? I was wondering way there are those "Speaker out" connectors, and maybe it is because this.

Would the speakers sound better if I free them of the lower frequencies? I received contradictory answers about this question.

@ZolaIII It seems to me the Linkwitz came before the DSP began to be implementate in subwoofer. Like Linkwitz was the digital prefered solution on subwoofers until DSP arrives as a built-in. Is it this way?

Source-->Sub line in
Sub line out-->Amp

You need to check if your specific sub has high pass on the line outs.

Your system will sound much better if you relieve your small speakers from playing low frequencies.

 

[Zeppelin]

Ufff high pass is a cut/tame filter in dB octave slope form. It does stress out the main speakers and the cabinet less by lowering excursion of woffer driver on them and producing less refractions and THD in cabinets.
Even if the subwoofer have high level (high current speaker direct) I/O it will be a pass trough (no hi pass filter or anything) and it's not a best way to go disreging (adds impedance and distortion). Without much complications it's better to go lo level I/O trough sub (source DAC out to sub, sub out to power amplifier input) and volume control after you tune and match the sub on source DAC or digital volume controls on whatever (PC for example). Best way is separate DAC out LFE to sub and L, R chenel to power amplifier as you loose least and have better control (more freedom to implement all filters as you like).

My amp is integrated, so has DAC built-in and can't configure setup the way any of you both say.

This is the back of the sub, and I assume the High pass is the 2 speakers inputs+2 speakers outputs on the bottom. It has no LFE.

It is interesting to see there are 2 different opinions about how the frequencies must be managed for speakers+sub. Some people say it is better to free the speakers for the low frequencies, and others say it good if speakers and sub sligthly overlaps. Maybe in a near future I will open a thread to see a debate about this.

 

[ozzy9832001]

My amp is integrated, so has DAC built-in and can't configure setup the way any of you both say.

This is the back of the sub, and I assume the High pass is the 2 speakers inputs+2 speakers outputs on the bottom. It has no LFE.
View attachment 274113


It is interesting to see there are 2 different opinions about how the frequencies must be managed for speakers+sub. Some people say it is better to free the speakers for the low frequencies, and others say it good if speakers and sub sligthly overlaps. Maybe in a near future I will open a thread to see a debate about this.

I think the speakers should overlap slightly, especially if the sub is cross over into frequencies that can be localized. It helps to minimize the effect.

All comes down to taste and room acoustics.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

My amp is integrated, so has DAC built-in and can't configure setup the way any of you both say.

This is the back of the sub, and I assume the High pass is the 2 speakers inputs+2 speakers outputs on the bottom. It has no LFE.
View attachment 274113


It is interesting to see there are 2 different opinions about how the frequencies must be managed for speakers+sub. Some people say it is better to free the speakers for the low frequencies, and others say it good if speakers and sub sligthly overlaps. Maybe in a near future I will open a thread to see a debate about this.

There will be overlap regardless, it's just a matter of how much. This is determined by the point and/or the type of xover. But overlap is there regardless.
The point and type depends on speakers response in room and sub response in room. Oh, -and your ears have first priority in the process.