Musmy/Suqiya MPA-02 internal pictures, not a review.

[mhardy6647]

Does Omega care about cheap knockoff watches?
(not a rhetorical question -- I reckon that they do, but then again, they might not)

 

[Mart68]

Does Omega care about cheap knockoff watches?
(not a rhetorical question -- I reckon that they do, but then again, they might not)

The difference with the fake watches is they say 'Omega' on them and they copy the look exactly. Whereas these amps have their own brand name and the appearance is only reminiscent of Accuphase, it's some way from an exact copy.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

So do the people buying these things believe they are getting a genuine Accuphase on the cheap.

If I buy a $10 'Omega', I honestly know what's inside.

Is it the same for this 'MUSMYS–Reference Accuphase A70 Pure Class A Amplifier 100W*2'? If I bought it I'd have no certainty of its Class A bias, it's wattage or its noise/distortion. Since it's a fake like the fake Omega, is it the equivalent of a cheap quartz movement?

 

[Mart68]

So do the people buying these things believe they are getting a genuine Accuphase on the cheap.

Some of them do but this is based on the premise that Accuphase, or Dartzeel or other expensive amplifier brands have some secret sauce in the circuit design that gives better sound quality than cheaper brands of amplifier.

Even if that were true, which it isn't, we don't know and they don't know if these amps exactly copy those circuits. Probably they don't.

What they're actually buying are just amps with styling reminiscent of the expensive brands. Without testing we don't know if performance is competent. Probably it is, since competent amplifiers are commoditised and we don't have any subjective reports, so far, of any sonic disasters.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

I very much doubt it does or that they care. Accuphase are selling into an entirely different market, they purposefully limit their output to maintain price and exclusivity. Not a sign of a company that's struggling to shift product.

I can't see any way in which these cheap amps that look very superficially similar impacts their sales in the slightest.

Pretty sure most companies would take a dim view of their designs being stolen.

 

[Mart68]

Pretty sure most companies would take a dim view of their designs being stolen.

I'm sure they would but as I already said, the styling is not copied exactly, it is just reminiscent, and the circuits, even if they are copied exactly which they are probably not, are not proprietary, or are no longer legally protected. Nor is the brand name appropriated except as a hook to attract people to the adverts for them.

So far I've not seen a single one of these amps that is actually a 'copy' in the way a fake Rolex is a copy - i.e the styling is exactly replicated and the Rolex brand name is on the copy. Maybe there are some that do that, I've not checked every listing on Ali Express.

IMO there is nothing wrong or illegal with what Musmy et al are doing.

 

[Mnyb]

I'm at this stage more concerned about that there is a click of persons ? person ? accounts ? showcasing these products regularly , and the same click of persons ? person ? accounts ? answers regularly with some kind words about the nice product and similar products .

Is it just a show on our popular forum to give the makers of these exposure to a large audience ? What's the involvement of the makers of these products .

Is it just advertisement ?

These treads are not very popular among most members and often ridiculed somewhat , there must be an explanation for the tenacity ? insisting of creating these treads despite the abrasive reception each time ?

I can respect a copy/clone DIY subculture ,building classic amps for fun , its a rich audio history we should know more about really

But not commercialized knockoffs

Pretty sure most companies would take a dim view of their designs being stolen.

I'm sure many of the designs are quite old not protected in any way any more ? and possibly the cicuit is not unique or patended , but a brand say Accuphase may had a specific implementation with specific components in the past .

The problem is in any way using Accuphase name when in fact your not Accuphase or representing them ! to sell another product .
It's only mentioned in their website not printed on the actual product itself ? so it's the sales tactics really ?

 

[Mart68]

The problem is in any way using Accuphase name when in fact your not Accuphase or representing them ! to sell another product .
It's only mentioned in their website not printed on the actual product itself ? so it's the sales tactics really ?

That's really the only vaguely dodgy thing here. But you often see that on eBay listings where several brand names unconnected with the actual device for sale are listed, so that the item comes up in search results for those brands.

 

[Sokel]

We've been sad by watching these people playing with other people's wishes with these knock-offs, but that's not the point and it happens everywhere.

The point is, who soldered this thing?
Anyone had a good look?

 

[Frank Dernie]

So do the people buying these things believe they are getting a genuine Accuphase on the cheap.

If I buy a $10 'Omega', I honestly know what's inside.

Is it the same for this 'MUSMYS–Reference Accuphase A70 Pure Class A Amplifier 100W*2'? If I bought it I'd have no certainty of its Class A bias, it's wattage or its noise/distortion. Since it's a fake like the fake Omega, is it the equivalent of a cheap quartz movement?

The first time I went to China for the Chinese GP in 2009 walking out for a meal away from the rip-off prices in the US hotel there were hawkers selling watch copies. I bought a Panerai similar watch. It wasn't a perfect replica of any of their models afaik but it was $9 (the cost of a starter in the hotel or a meal for 2 in a local restaurant).
I still have it, it is clockwork and keeps as good time as any of my swiss watches - and the rubber wristband (which I hate) is worth more than $9

I have bought 2 pieces of Chinese HiFi, a CD player and a valve amplifier, both because I liked the styling. I took them to a local specialist for inspection and testing and adjustment to CE spec and check they are OK on our 240 volt system.
Both worked fine, though the valve amp has had little use. The CD player is connected to one of my systems and in almost daily use and this is over 10 years ago, maybe nearer 20.

I would have no problem buying Chinese items from China again, I hope their QC is as good now as then.

Edit to add neither of the bits of HiFi were a copy of a non Chinese brand, The top loading "Leonardo da Vinci" CD player just looked good as did the Classic 16.0 amplifier. The specialist fully tested the amp and said the performance was good and typical of a push pull 40W amp with good quality output transformers.

 

[Mart68]

he first time I went to China for the Chinese GP in 2009 walking out for a meal away from the rip-off prices in the US hotel there were hawkers selling rip off watch copies. I bought a Panerai similar watch. It wasn't a perfect replica of any of their models afaik but it was $9.
I still have it, it is clockwork and keeps as good time as any of my swiss watches - and the rubber wristband (which I hate) is worth more than $9

You did well there. I was in San Diego and took a day trip to Tijuana where, with not much else to do, I bought a 'Rolex' for ten dollars. The gold paint was already rubbing off before I even put it on for the first time and it lost about 5 minutes a day. After a few weeks it packed in working.

Back in the 1980s a colleague of my father went to HK and brought me back a fake Oyster Perpetual that seemed really well made. That worked fine for a couple of years until one of my brothers pinched it out of my room when I was at work, wore it on a night out in Liverpool, got in a fight and broke it.

Morale is if you're going to buy a fake buy Chinese not Mexican

 

[Pauli]

It may be a fine device. But looking at parts of the typography used just makes me shudder ...

 

[RoA]

You pay for things like this when buying the proper article rather than a cheap imitation. I appreciate that precision engineering doesn't matter to many on here but it will to a certain kind of customer.

 

[mhardy6647]

Even if that were true, which it isn't, we don't know and they don't know if these amps exactly copy those circuits. Probably they don't.

I think the observed and nontrivial individual variation in some of these products* pretty much lets out the notion that they are clones in any widely accepted sense of the word.

_____________
* e.g., this is the Mumsy... umm, I mean Musmy A75 "clone":

Musmy a75 clone (not a review)

Im also considering getting this clone ...it has some of the looks I really love, and reminds me of my time with my late dad and the audio world we lived in. I find it gorgeous and will serve as a external fir my lesser serious 2 channel listening space. As you pointed out, to have some fun...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Frank Dernie]

View attachment 530917
You pay for things like this when buying the proper article rather than a cheap imitation. I appreciate that precision engineering doesn't matter to many on here but it will to a certain kind of customer.

China is pretty good at precision engineering, actually. One could debate how good they are on original design (mechanical and electrical, not styling) since many factories are making products designed by somebody else, like Apple, but their manufacturing is pretty good IME.

My almost 20 year old Classic 16.0 EL34 valve amp has beautifully machined case, controls and switches. It isn't remote controlled though, mind you I only know of one amp with a rotary volume control on the remote

 

[mhardy6647]

Couple of not bad at all (and not even terribly modern) Chinese-made "Orion" branded telescopes here from our daughter's brief but fairly intense middle school-era astronomy phase*. Not on par with Mrs. H's Swarovski spotting scope, but a fraction of the price.
Poor Orion is no more.

________________
* She took a course at the Harvard Smithsonian Observatory which in those days still had an actual observatory tucked in the woods off a secondary road in the little Central Massachusetts town (also called Harvard and named after the same guy as the college/university) where we lived!

 

[Mart68]

I think the observed and nontrivial individual variation in some of these products* pretty much lets out the notion that they are clones in any widely accepted sense of the word.

_____________
* e.g., this is the Mumsy... umm, I mean Musmy A75 "clone":

Musmy a75 clone (not a review)

Im also considering getting this clone ...it has some of the looks I really love, and reminds me of my time with my late dad and the audio world we lived in. I find it gorgeous and will serve as a external fir my lesser serious 2 channel listening space. As you pointed out, to have some fun...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Exactly - I think people calling them 'clones' when they're not visually identical nor - most likely - electrically identical gives the impression that something underhand is occuring when it isn't.

There is, or was, a Krell KSA 100 clone on offer. I have a real one and if you compare the internals it's a joke. The 'clone' isn't even remotely close.

But some will buy it thinking they're getting a £15K power amp for a grand.

 

[mhardy6647]

But some will buy it thinking they're getting a £15K power amp for a grand.

Yeah, I think that's the root cause of all the dudgeon, at least for some of us (ahem, for me).