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"Music-First Audiophile" Manifesto by John Darko

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You can't have both,

Well certainly someone thinking in terms of zero sum positions can't. ;-). But this is where nuance helps, and one can see it's not "all or nothing all the time."

your system is either chosen to be an accurate reproducer of whats on the source.
You can then add EQ or such to taste.

Or you chose the path of a high distortion SET 300B amp and AN speakers cause it sounds good to you.
But end up with ass-backwards sound quality that you can never escape.

So, this question you haven't answered yet:

Did you choose your equipment because you were seeking better sound quality or not Sal?

(Better sound quality for what? Would that be the music you listen to, perhaps? And while you're at it, ponder that the speaker measurement criteria used on ASR was determined on "sounds good to me" preference scores..)
 
I think an example of the music speaking for itself versus having no music is like when the mains electricity used to go out every 3 months or so in small town Canada decades ago and we used a old wind-up record player with I guess 78s. It sounded like crap but with dead silence all around any music was good music at the time.
Sure! There is of course occasions where something simpler can be enough, but nowadays me and probably many others won't listen to even the best music we know of on a smartphone speaker if that's only what's available at the moment. In fifty years time though if/when we live on a dystopian desert planet I'll probably even enjoy Brittney Spears on a Tamagotchi speaker if I'm lucky enough to loot that.
 
Nope, you are not addressing the question, "Why anyone cares what Darko has to say in the first place has always puzzled me." so let me help simplify the question: "Why anyone cares what salesman has to say" it is curious how we give some validity to the information coming from a person who only real goal is getting money from you; it is actually puzzling.

I did address that question. My response presumed exactly what you just wrote, Chrispy's attitude was clear.

You can consider Darko a "salesman" but there remain reasons, which I stated, why it's still reasonable to address the things Darko promulgates, even if it is to correct what you think to be his misinformation.

That said: You have simply made the assertion Darko is a "salesman" whose information would have no "validity." Why should I take your opinion on this? Darko doesn't sell the equipment, and he claims his are not paid reviews. So the onus would be on you to show otherwise. I do not consider cynicism to be an argument, btw. I've had the type of cynicism cast at me as well, simply because at one time I reviewed some audio products, and I know the insinuations to be quite false, so "audio reviewers making a living = bad" don't cut it for me.

The fact someone may make a living (including from banner advertisements on youtube) does not entail they are simply a "salesman" for the products they review. The person may be quite honest and enthusiastic about bringing all sorts of gear to the attention to a likeminded audience. Darko regularly goes through the pros and cons of equipment under review, and many find his breakdowns of the features, quirks and all, quite helpful.
 
So an old cassette deck with a mono speaker that tops out at 60dB and have a frequency response between 200hz-12khz is good enough to enjoy any music because it speaks for itself?
Yes . That was all I had as a lad growing up and I enjoyed music back then.
 
You don’t need HiFi to enjoy music. At least you shouldn’t need it. The music should speak for itself.
For sure, some of the most enjoyable music I ever heard was with a girl, from the back seat of my car, over the buzzing of a tube type car radios vibrator.
But that hasn't stopped me from spending the next 60 years, trying to hear more deeply into the recordings with the best performing High Fidelity audio system I could afford.. ;)
 
Darko is not describing a single audiophile I know in any camp. As a matter of fact, he is not describing himself either!

To wit, countless audiophiles who subscribe to "music first" think they are being teleported to live event. Many think a USB cable makes more of a difference than any acoustic product.

It is interesting though that he describes more someone in our camp than his/theirs....
 
Darko is not describing a single audiophile I know in any camp. As a matter of fact, he is not describing himself either!

To wit, countless audiophiles who subscribe to "music first" think they are being teleported to live event. Many think a USB cable makes more of a difference than any acoustic product.

It is interesting though that he describes more someone in our camp than his/theirs....

I mostly agree. That's what I was getting at initially: it's a decent enough list, but feels like the audiophiles he is positioning himself against are something of a strawman.
 
To wit, countless audiophiles who subscribe to "music first" think they are being teleported to live event.

Not everyone listens to music created by instruments, according to roon I listened to 117 hours of music in April, at a rough browse I’d say at least 100hrs + of that was electronic music.
 
Yes . That was all I had as a lad growing up and I enjoyed music back then.
Yeah same, but I'm not four years old anymore so I don't enjoy neither Teletubbies nor really bad sound quality music anymore. But if you do then good for you, you'll live a way cheaper life than the rest of us :)
 
There must have been a sale at the dispensary this afternoon. I believe the overwhelming majority of audiophiles define high fidelity as fidelity to what's in the recording. If the recording engineers have any talent whatsoever, the output will be a convincing reproduction of the original performance even if not exactly the same as the original performance. Somehow a bunch of very high members here think it means whatever makes you happy. That is a standard so vague as to be meaningless.
An audiophile would look more to the gear being hi fidelity on this site, tho....
 
There seems to be a disconnect/conflation going on in this conversation:
All of us pay for hardware; so that we can enjoy music... yet none of us pay for our music enjoyment; so that we can own more hardware.
Ways-and-Means be damned! I think of hardware like [errrr....] foreplay... just the means to achieve a goal.
 
Darko is what I call a "lifestyle audiophile", he does not pretend to be technicaly competent, he goes on for hours about streaming and uploading to his Nas, he wants to stream music from his phone, connect to Roon loves upsampling, and is mostly concerned with having his music available everywhere, every piece of gear must integrate the looks of his decor. Not realy an audiophile, but amiable and harmless.
 
50 says it was a Buick!
Naw, first a 54 Ford then a 56 Chevy.
Who could afford Buicks? LOL
There seems to be a disconnect/conflation going on in this conversation:
All of us pay for hardware; so that we can enjoy music... yet none of us pay for our music enjoyment; so that we can own more hardware.
What ??? :p
An audiophile would look more to the gear being hi fidelity on this site, tho....
We do hope so Chrispy, but seems some don't :(

Darko is what I call a "lifestyle audiophile"
Isn't Darko really Steve Guttenberg with more hair? LOL
 
Anyone can post anything on YouTube. Why do people pay so much attention?
 
Anyone can post anything on YouTube. Why do people pay so much attention?

True, that’s why I watch more YouTube than any other terrestrial/video streaming service
 
Anyone can post anything on YouTube. Why do people pay so much attention?

Because "just posting on youtube" doesn't actually characterize what people are actually doing.

So for instance: why do I pay attention to some reviewers on youtube?

I find audio gear interesting, and there's tons of stuff I'd love to hear, even if not to own. (And most of it will never appear on this website, nor end up in the hands of the two reviewers with a Klippel)

There are a number of youtubers who are acquiring a ton of different speakers, amps etc, many of which I find interesting. So I would like to hear about their experience with that gear. And again it's not "just posting a video." That is downplaying the amount of work involved. These are people who have to go about aquiring tons of gear, shipping and receiving it, going through all the unpacking and re-packing of the gear, getting info about the gear, setting up and listening to the gear, testing it in various ways, often doing comparisons with other gear they have on hand, or had also tested, putting the time in to the video production, graphics etc. And more reviewers seem to also be incorporating some level of measurements, even if it's room measurements of speakers. All of this work goes in to producing a video so that I can see this gear and learn *something* about it, or even just be entertained by the results. And if a reviewer seems to be accurate in describing speakers I'm familiar with, it gives me some more confidence on his/her take on other speakers. I know many on ASR disregard anything any non-ASR-approved reviewer says about gear, but I don't. I don't just believe everything they say: I can wend my way through unlikely claims vs plausible claims.

So, sure, I get it: it's not your bag. But there's a hell of a lot more that goes in to producing the review videos than just 'posting anything on youtube.'

I get to see a TON of gear on these videos, at no cost to me, and at the expense of all their effort. I'm good with that. (And they should be able to make money off their effort: if that's what it takes to put up the videos, good on them).
 
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Because "just posting on youtube" doesn't actually characterize what people are actually doing.

So for instance: why do I pay attention to some reviewers on youtube?

I find audio gear interesting, and there's tons of stuff I'd love to hear, even if not to own.

There are a number of youtubers who are acquiring a ton of different speakers, amps etc, many of which I find interesting. So I would like to hear about their experience with that gear. And again it's not "just posting a video." That is downplaying the amount of work involved. These are people who have to go about aquiring tons of gear, shipping and receiving it, going through all the unpacking and re-packing of the gear, getting info about the gear, setting up and listening to the gear, testing it in various ways, often doing comparisons with other gear they have on hand, or had also tested, putting the time in to the video production, graphics etc. And more reviewers seem to also be incorporating some level of measurements, even if it's room measurements of speakers. All of this work goes in to producing a video so that I can see this gear and learn *something* about it, or even just be entertained by the results. And if a reviewer seems to be accurate in describing speakers I'm familiar with, it gives me some more confidence on his/her take on other speakers. I know many on ASR disregard anything any non-ASR-approved reviewer says about gear, but I don't. I don't just believe everything they say: I can wend my way through unlikely claims vs plausible claims.

So, sure, I get it: it's not your bag. But there's a hell of a lot more that goes in to producing the review videos than just 'posting anything on youtube.'

I get to see a TON of gear on these videos, at no cost to me, and at the expense of all their effort. I'm good with that. (And they should be able to make money off their effort: if that's what it takes to put up the videos, good on them).

Absolutely valid points, yes, I do my fair share of watching as well, but I always keep in mind that you cannot trust everything you see/read/hear. I would actually watch more if they got rid of the annoying advertisements and made it easier to use, like it was in the early days when the platform started.
 
Absolutely valid points, yes, I do my fair share of watching as well, but I always keep in mind that you cannot trust everything you see/read/hear. I would actually watch more if they got rid of the annoying advertisements and made it easier to use, like it was in the early days when the platform started.
I have YouTube Premium. It costs me ~$13 per month for add free YouTube Premium service. I only watch bush-craft, camping, adventure, skiing, snowboarding, cat/carp-fishing, trout fishing, ocean fishing and kayaking videos etc so I don't really concern myself with nefarious content...LoL.
 
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