I think some simple spell check would have gone a long way towards making his point of view more comprehensible. I was at a loss. But I sincerely meant no offense—the whole conversation had just gotten frustrating.
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Musetec Audio (LKS Audio) MH-DA005 Review (DAC)
- Thread starter amirm
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wemist01
Active Member
I think that last line is gratuitous. The performance difference where many middle-aged or older ears are concerned may be zero. Let's at least give the big spenders the chance to claim that their DAC sounds just as good as a $200 Topping. The foolishness is in asserting that it must be better and that their ears are fine-tuned measurement devices.
wemist01
Active Member
All hail Patron Saint Todd K!
This certainly is what the current state of knowledge would dictate. It's not entirely proven fact yet, however.
I actually paid $2962 for my Musetec 005. So sorry I meant Gustard X26 Pro, hope that typo did not cause you problems.
The Topping D90SE was a decent DAC but it gave me fatigue with me RAAL SR1a headphones. However, it was decent with my 2-channel speakers. You put a bad signal into the SR1a, and you get a bad result (fatigue in my case). The Benchmark DAC3B also is not that great with the SR1a but better than the Topping D90SE. I am keeping the DAC3B long term because it sounds "almost" great. Your measurements may say one thing, but my ears tell me the truth that matters.
The Musetec 005 is wonderful with the SR1a and my speakers. All the details and goodness of the Topping and Benchmark but also no fatigue. Again, that is what matters with regards to a DAC. How does it sound to my ears? A shame it does not measure well but as I said earlier I will be buying a second 005.
"you are not paying attention to the audienec on here" What does that mean, Has this place turned into a cult. I have been posting here for years and never needed to censor myself. What has changed now?
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You don’t need to censor yourself, but when you profess to enjoy the sound quality of poorly-measuring components, you will need to prepare yourself for the backlash!
Truly, all DACs will sound the same unless they are doing something extremely wrong. We passed the threshold of audibility a long time ago.
As I often like to post, “Everything that can be heard can be measured. Not everything that can be measured can be heard.”—Henry Kloss
Sure, they sound the same. Until you buy some DACs and compare them side-by-side. Preferably using a preamp like a Benchmark LA4. I may have bought the Topping D90SE from the raves here or maybe it was from Sandu on Soundnews.net. I tend to like the choices of Sandu. The D90SE is good but not great. Try it with a great headphone.
BTW - What backlash? I am not asking for any affirmation of my comments on the 005.
An overweight person (200 lbs) was on a weight watcher program. One day a fellow member told him that he bought a very expensive 'Gucci' brand bath room scale and he lost 50 lbs just like that. This person follows the member's advice, bought the same bathroom scale. To his astonishment, he is now 150 lbs! Since then he vowed this is the best bathroom scale he ever had.
The end.
The end.
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You need to compare them via ABX testing which you have not done. If you are going to compare them using headphones, you will also need to use the same headphone amplifier for each (ie, not via their onboard headphone amps).
SubsonicLurker
Member
I think if someone says that they prefer the way that a poorly measuring component sounds in their system, that's a legitimate statement of personal taste, whether the anyone else agrees or not.
However, if they say a component that measures poorly is objectively superior to components that measure well, that warrants pushback.
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Also, as I posted earlier, I am sure that Ed Meitner isn’t thrilled about Musetec using a trade name very similar in spelling and pronunciation to Museatex.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #332
No. It is that we have run away from the cult that makes up its own rules of universe, physics and engineering. So you bringing that here, creates nightmares of how bad that world is. Suggest you shed those notions in your post, ask questions and be open to learning why I wrote what I just wrote.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #333
Not in my book. Such statement better be in the context of a controlled test when differences are very small which is the case with electronics. Otherwise the problem is that the poster doesn't know his own hearing experience. So sharing it with us is just silly. Do the listening test properly and then we will all listen. Otherwise it is folklore best kept to oneself.
I did not mean that entirely literally—I tried to make that clear, and if I failed I own it. I’m certainly aware that many of the flaws measured in this DAC are unlikely to be audible. However, according to Amir’s measurements this DAC is barely handling 16 bit, so I’m not sure that it’s deficiencies are as subtle as some of the other DACs we’ve discussed on here. And my final sentence was a facetious response to his claims that his ears could detect excellence in this decidedly flawed, imprecise DAC.
As for my killing his joy by taking him to task over his pricey DAC, I do not think it is benign for someone like him to be spreading false information about this unit and encouraging others to trust his judgment and part ways with an astonishing amount of money. This kind of behavior goes on unchecked in other forums on a daily basis, and I tend to doubt that ASR is the only forum where he said enticing words about this DAC.
If confronting him with this is harsh, then I guess I don’t mind being harsh, because I’ve been ripped off myself. Peace
What hasn’t been proven?
JSmith
Master Contributor
If anything... it's an anti-cult, opposing, discouraging the audiophool cult mentality.
JSmith
I give up attempting to vanquish this wrong-headed view that DACs have a “sound”, and that ears prevail over measurements when it comes to this particular component. Your position is not just unscientific but it is completely ignorant about how DACs work. So at this point your insistence on acting snooty about your superior wisdom compared to the rest of us is starting to make me feel Schadenfreude at the thought of you getting bilked out of as much money as possible. So please, ignore me and proceed!
You don’t need to censor yourself—but if you officiously spout nonsense that is entirely unscientific on a forum that is devoted to science, I think you should already be aware that you’re setting yourself up for pushback. This would be true of any technical or scientific forum if someone came along exemplifying the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Why don’t you try just being quiet for awhile, or better yet ask sincere questions, so you might have a chance to learn something new? I keep learning new information on this site every day, and it’s exhilarating! Nobody here is in the business of offering you bad information. There just might be a chance that the problems you experienced today may indicate that you would benefit from an open mind for new ideas.
What I would like to know, is the midrange of the Musetec just lush, or is it also liquid? I heard it must have an excellent texture and layering, but is it really holographic? It is supposed to be warm, but also detailed and analytic, yet without fatique and there should be an absolute absence of glare and harshness, is this correct?
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This is the sort of statement that will cause the backlash** - you may be not care about affirmation of your view, but as long as you try to convince people that all dacs have a sound, you'll get told that you are wrong. You need to back up such statements with some sort of controlled testing or measurements, and the measurements have already been done. Sighted listening is known to be unreliable.
In the case of this DAC it is possible it does have a sound - it measures poorly. Although even with those poor measurements it is most likely that the differences are inaudible for most people.
And if you (as you claim) prefer the sound of this device, and that preference comes from the actual characteristics of the "sound signature" (Rather than perception bias) you are actually expressing a preference for noise and/or distortion. Nothing wrong with that - but as a personal subjective preference it will only apply to you.
EDIT: ** not really backlash - just disagreement/correction.
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