Multichannel computer audio solutions

[phofman]

I believe you can do everything if you would use VB-AUDIO MATRIX as system-wide routing center which also provides 64-Ch virtual I/O audio (VAIO) devices to replace your WDM routings.
VB-AUDIO MATRIX redirects any of the digital audio I/O to any of the available ASIO, VASIO, VAIO channels.

I wonder what the additional latency is, as @dithered talks about a setup for gaming. Those software loopbacks add at least two additional buffers into the chain.

 

[dualazmak]

I believe you can do everything if you would use VB-AUDIO MATRIX as system-wide routing center which also provides 64-Ch virtual I/O audio (VAIO) devices to replace your WDM routings.
VB-AUDIO MATRIX redirects any of the digital audio I/O to any of the available ASIO, VASIO, VAIO channels.

I wonder what the additional latency is, as @dithered talks about a setup for gaming. Those software loopbacks add at least two additional buffers into the chain.

I do not play game with my audio (audio-visual) PCs, but I occasionally view/listen to TV programs, YouTube video clips, DVD movies, etc. using PANASONIC 55-inch OLED TV TH-55HZ1800 connected to the PC by 10m-long optical HDMI cable, as I shared in detail in my recent total-system update post #931 on my project thread.

In this TV setup, the 55-inch OLED TV is configured as second PC monitor of 4K 3840x2160 resolution in refresh rate 60 Hz; all the audio-visual processing, including the TV tuner function, is done within the PC, and only visual video signal is fed into 55-inch OLED TV through optical HDMI cable, whereas all the audio signal goes into system-wide DSP center EKIO via VB-AUDIO MATRIX for my "ordinary" PC-DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier audio processing/reproduction.

My primary PC monitor for audio(-visual) control is 27-inch LCD screen of 1920x1080 resolution:

Spoiler

Above TV setup is a kind of "reverse-thinking utilization" of 55-inch 4K OLED TV in my audio-visual system, as I intensively described in my post here #509 (remote thread), and fortunately I have no lip-sync/latency issue at all, even though two of my completely silent PC in listening room are rather outdated ones;

I dare not install GPU board/card within the PCs (to make/keep them completely silent!), but using the CPU incorporated GPU (iGPU) Intel HD2000 for feeding video signal into primary 27-inch(1920x1080) monitor via DVD-I cable and into 55-inch 4K(3840x2160) OLED TV via optical HDMI cable, both in 60 Hz refresh rate.

Furthermore, I have no audible delay/latency issue during the real-time live play of vinyl LP (ref. #688) by TT DP-57L + AT-PEQ30 (phono preamp) + US-1x2HR (audio interface), as shared here #692 on my project thread.

Since I do not play (heavy?) games on this setup, sorry but I do not know the lip-sync/latency issue (or not) in the above setup while gaming.


By the way, in my upstairs office, I also have two of much powerful (but again rather outdated) Intel Xe-CPU PC workstations, one has 8-core 16-thread Xeon ES-2630 v3 CPU and NVIDIA GeForce GTX970 GPU board, the other has 12-core 24-thread Xeon ES-2697 v2 CPU and NVIDIA GeForce GTX TITAN GPU board, for my bio-medical image processing work as well as preparation of diagrams, photos and video clips for ASR Forum; the dual monitor via DisplayPort are 27-inch EIZO EV2750 monitor (2560 x 1440 pixel) giving 5120 x 1440 pixel desktop area (photo here).

Spoiler

They are also almost silent PC workstations, and I have desktop audio setup for them with similar 10-Ch DSP processing by EKIO into single DAC to single stereo integrated amplifier driving small 3-way SP plus small sub-woofers. I have never brought them (the Xeon PC workstations) into my audio listening room, however, for testing heavy game play purposes using my main audio system plus 55-inch 4K OLED TV.

 

[dithered]

Once you start getting into any slightly exotic gaming on the PC (resolutions that aren't 16:9 aspect ratio, refresh rates that aren't 60hz or 120hz), you instantly see what utter trash HDMI is and how it throws a monkey wrench in basically any setup.

 

[dithered]

LOL, OMG NO. Please don't push this level of cable complexity into the domestic realm.
HDMI may not be perfect but for day to day home audio/video it functions at a very high level.
We've mainly gotten past most of the handshake issues experienced a few years back and life is very good in the home audio connection world.

Stop pretending that HDMI is in a good place for PC use. It isn't. It's a complete train wreck.

 

[dithered]

Welcome to real life in the big city.
Your paying a bunch of licensing fees to all sort of people for all sort of things.
HDMI works very well, is in place as the current default audio/video interconnect, and it's not going anywhere anytime soon.
There are much more important issues to get all worked up over. LOL

No, actually, HDMI doesn't work well at all. No, actually, I don't pay a lot of licensing fees for different things. Your "there are starving children in Africa" argument is asinine, too. By that rationale, this entire forum doesn't need to exist at all, because there are "more important issues" than audio.

Your posts in this thread aren't helpful or welcome. You seem like some kind of shill.

 

[BDWoody]

Your posts in this thread aren't helpful or welcome. You seem like some kind of shill.

You are the one who is way out of line here.

You can dial back the aggression or you can move along.

 

[dualazmak]

Once you start getting into any slightly exotic gaming on the PC (resolutions that aren't 16:9 aspect ratio, refresh rates that aren't 60hz or 120hz), you instantly see what utter trash HDMI is and how it throws a monkey wrench in basically any setup.

Are you saying this to myself?
As I described clearly in my above post #82, I am not a gamer, I do not play games on my PCs.
(I have/had no interest at all on "gaming" on PCs...)

 

[krabapple]

Stop pretending that HDMI is in a good place for PC use. It isn't. It's a complete train wreck.

The cursor on my laptop running foobar2k/WASAPI out via HDMI to an AVR has never, ever, 'gotten lost in a phantom monitor'.

It just works. No train wreck in evidence.

Godspeed you on your audio journey, which you seem intent on making difficult.

 

[richardm]

Godspeed you on your audio journey, which you seem intent on making difficult.

It's painful how many don't get it. My PC's "sound card" is an HDMI output and I can attest it's every bit as bad as OP makes it out to be.

• Monitor sleep due to inactivity = audio stops playing.
• "Phantom" monitor in which to lose the pointing device cursor.
• Power AVR on/off inspires Windows to "reset" all panels (i.e. they go blank for a few moments) just as if I'd plugged/unplugged an actual monitor.
• Powering on/off an actual display panel = audio stops playing (same phenomenon as above only in reverse).
• The requirement to keep installed/updated the full Windows driver kit for whatever GPU "sound card" is in play. I've tried running just the audio driver for a GPU -- the chip never initializes without the graphics driver.
• Newly launched programs randomly deciding to open on the "phantom" display -- meanwhile I'm sitting here thinking the software installation is broken.
• (rare) Newly launched programs open on the "phantom" display and scale themselves accordingly = incorrect scaling for my actual panels and they won't rescale themselves without being shut down and re-started. This is a program defect that's thankfully rare on Windows. Please press 'F' for mixed HiDPI Linux users. Please press 'F' again for mixed DPI Linux users who can't/won't use Wayland.
• (rare but JFC on a cracker when it happens) PC decides the HDMI-connected AVR is now the "boot" display and displays BIOS/UEFI setup on said display... and only on said display. I have to physically unplug the stupid AVR in order to access UEFI setup in order to fix the problem. Even worse is when Windows decides the AVR is the primary display so I can't logon.

I understand the appeal of one cable for audio whether it be lossless PCM multichannel or an encoded surround bitstream from your collection of PiraBlu-Rays. And no fighting with hum, ground loops, or overpriced audiophool gear with XLR/TRS. The concept has a lot going for it. But everyone involved seems to have dropped the ball in one way or another.

A 7.1 analog HDMI audio extractor in-line with an existing display would likely mitigate nearly all of the above. It'd work for me since I don't care about decoding surround bitstreams. But can anyone find one, and if so, is the price reasonable? $600 is not reasonable for something like this.

 

[StigErik]

I've used HDMI as "sound card" with Foobar on my Windows 10 laptop connected to an AVR for years. I recognize some of the mentioned challenges, but most of them can easily be avoided by never letting Windows go to sleep or turn off the displays (Control Panel - Power Options - etc..) , and Duplicate the screens instead of Extend (Windows key - P).

 

[richardm]

never letting Windows go to sleep or turn off the displays (Control Panel - Power Options

Who's paying my power bill?

Duplicate the screens instead of Extend

Someone above mentioned this causes them noticeable latency. For my normal Windows activity (non-gaming) it seems OK on my system and I'll try it for a while.

One thing I don't like is how this forces me to push a 593kHz pixel clock down a long cable run (since the AVR's output runs the same resolution as the 4k display it now mirrors). I trust the HDMI link much more when it's running at the AVR's native 1280x720.

 

[richardm]

Following up on some of my comments here...

A 7.1 analog HDMI audio extractor in-line with an existing display would likely mitigate nearly all of the above. It'd work for me since I don't care about decoding surround bitstreams. But can anyone find one, and if so, is the price reasonable? $600 is not reasonable for something like this.

Found one: https://www.parts-express.com/HDMI-...udio-Extractor-D-Embedder-180-1104?quantity=1
No idea if it's crap. I'll pick one up sooner or later.

Duplicate the screens instead of Extend

Someone above mentioned this causes them noticeable latency. For my normal Windows activity (non-gaming) it seems OK on my system and I'll try it for a while.

Been running this for 2-3 weeks now and it's been OK. Occasionally I get a loud crack from the center channel when the PC is extremely busy. It's not frequent enough to lose sleep over. Might not be related to the new config but worth a mention.

One thing I don't like is how this forces me to push a 593kHz pixel clock down a long cable run (since the AVR's output runs the same resolution as the 4k display it now mirrors). I trust the HDMI link much more when it's running at the AVR's native 1280x720.

Windows is allowing me to run the AVR's output at 30Hz refresh for a 297kHz pixel clock while running the mirrored panel at 60Hz. I didn't think Windows would allow mixed refresh for mirrored panels. Perhaps it's an old limitation that went away at some point...