MQA Update

[antcollinet]

This assessment cannot be made at this point in time.
I wouldn't be surprised if ASR users who show their dislike soon start using the new MQA technologies.
Bluesound was just the beginning and other manufacturers will implement the new technologies.

Yes it can. PCM audio even in 16/44.1 can already record and reproduce audio to a level of accuracy where the defects are difficult to hear even for trained listeners, with the best ears. And even they probably can't in real world listening with speakers.

When you increase that to just 24/48 - it has reached the level of accuracy beyond the ability of any human to detect defects under any circumstances.

It is not possible therefore for MQA to improve on that. There is no magic tweaking of audio parameters. No "unknown unmeasurable effects". It is all just marketing bullshit, and yet another attempt to make money by selling something that offers no benefit to a particularly gullible market.

 

[Matt_Holland]

As I understood the block diagram of how MQA worked, the full 24 bit signal only guaranteed 13 bits of data in the audible range, and even then with the "triangle" data was cut further. All to reproduce the "ultrasonic" signal we don't hear, and even that not at the right level, apparently.

10 bits for MQA CD? I have a work colleague who is spending good money buying those things. I'd suspected 11 or 12 bits with a worse representation of those ultrasonics. What a waste.

I thought 24bit MQA left approximately 17bits for the uncompressed part. Bob claimed correctly dithered 17bits was all you needed for audio.

 

[Galliardist]

I thought 24bit MQA left approximately 17bits for the uncompressed part. Bob claimed correctly dithered 17bits was all you needed for audio.

I was careful to say "guaranteed". I don't have it in front of me right now, but the MQA signal was split up in various ways as part of the "audio origami", and the top 13 bits in the triangle was what was "left alone".

 

[pogo]

Fortunately, the tiresome origami discussion at QRONO is left out of the equation.

 

[pogo]

There is no magic tweaking of audio parameters.

See the Technical White Paper.
The improvement will certainly have been cross-checked during development, otherwise the node icon would not have been introduced without the option of switching off the new MQA technology.

 

[pjug]

See the Technical White Paper.
The improvement will certainly have been cross-checked during development, otherwise the node icon would not have been introduced without the option of switching off the new MQA technology.

The white paper basically just talks about filters. And applying noise to mask imaging caused by them. And applying different filters for high sample rates than they will use for 44/48. This won't make any audible difference for high sample rate files; for 44/48 it might have the slightest effect but you could do similar with a lot of DACs or external upsampling.
edit: oh and DSD to PCM conversion, no idea what they are doing there that they consider to be so groundbreaking

 

[pogo]

The white paper basically just talks about filters.

Correct, that's QRONO. Or did you expect something else?

 

[pjug]

Correct, that's QRONO. Or did you expect something else?

no but if you agree that's all there is I don't get what has you so pumped up about it.

 

[antcollinet]

See the Technical White Paper.
The improvement will certainly have been cross-checked during development, otherwise the node icon would not have been introduced without the option of switching off the new MQA technology.

Which is totally irrelevant. Inaudible is a binary state. The defects are either inaudible or they are not. Even if that white paper demonstrates measurable improvements over what can be done with traditional PCM (And from reading @pjuigs comment it would seem they don't) they can't make the defects "more inaudible"

 

[Steve H]

This assessment cannot be made at this point in time.
I wouldn't be surprised if ASR users who show their dislike soon start using the new MQA technologies.
Bluesound was just the beginning and other manufacturers will implement the new technologies.

It’s late 2024, everything new in audio is a scam until proven otherwise.

 

[tcli]

10 years after, archimago writes about MQA again :
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2025/01/lenbrooks-mqa-next-generation-qrono.html

 

[pogo]

MQA LABS has redesigned its website: Link
The new NAD M33 V2 is equipped with FOQUS and QRONO.

 

[PHD]

Are they actually bragging about making digital sound worse? Even MP3 @ 320kbps provides better performance than the best analog system... I bet that audiofools are going to stand in line to buy this BS...

 

[Kremmen]

View attachment 451233
Are they actually bragging about making digital sound worse? Even MP3 @ 320kbps provides better performance than the best analog system... I bet that audiofools are going to stand in line to buy this BS...

I wonder if someone could let me know what "time smear" is and how removing it "reveals textures previously obscured." I am genuinely interested.

 

[mhardy6647]

Might as well reboot MQA.
I mean, Ford brought back the Maverick (albeit as a truck -- of sorts)!

 

[pkane]

I wonder if someone could let me know what "time smear" is and how removing it "reveals textures previously obscured." I am genuinely interested.

I'm only familiar with "bagel and shmear". Don't see any benefit to removing shmear from a bagel, either.

 

[pjug]

I wonder if someone could let me know what "time smear" is and how removing it "reveals textures previously obscured." I am genuinely interested.

The mqa camp talks about impulses not being preserved. It all looks reasonable on time domain plots but they never can support that it matters compared to the down side of weak filtering. See here, for example, where they say impulses 26us apart must be preserved.

MQA: Questions and Answers Some Real-World Comparisons

Some Real-World Comparisons Figure 7: Impulse response of a typical CD channel showing the dispersion in time over ±4ms.

www.stereophile.com

 

[pogo]

Better phase measurements with QRONO: Link

 

[JSmith]

Lenbrook's MQA: The Next Generation - QRONO, FOQUS, and other AQWARD things. And listening impressions from the non-audiophile press.

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

JSmith

 

[Kremmen]

The mqa camp talks about impulses not being preserved. It all looks reasonable on time domain plots but they never can support that it matters compared to the down side of weak filtering. See here, for example, where they say impulses 26us apart must be preserved.

MQA: Questions and Answers Some Real-World Comparisons

Some Real-World Comparisons Figure 7: Impulse response of a typical CD channel showing the dispersion in time over ±4ms.

www.stereophile.com

Thanks for the response. That's some pretty technical info you linked me to. I wasn't aware of this phenomenon but I'll give it a serious read later.