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MQA Deep Dive - I published music on tidal to test MQA

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RichB

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Does the forum software have a most liked filter?
A best of this thread would be great, though admittedly, most liked would filter out MQA support posts.

- Rich
 

AdamG

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Does the forum software have a most liked filter?
A best of this thread would be great, though admittedly, most liked would filter out MQA support posts.

- Rich
Not at the Thread level, that I am aware of, or have access.
 

Music1969

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Ultimately, I believe this will be decided by Apple, Spotify, and perhaps Amazon. They will either accept or reject MQA files if/when they are submitted by Warner et al. It’ll be interesting to see what Spotify does when they roll out their high-res tier later this year.

Apple, Spotify and don't forget Google/Youtube Music

Amazon Music HD made the first move and rejected MQA.
 

RichB

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If you want the $12.99 price,you have to pay for the whole year in advance.

QOBUZPlans.jpg


Qobuz has two versions of Studio Premier. ANNUAL paid in advance and MONTLY also paid in advance.
All streaming plans seem to have advance payment in common whether daily, monthly, weekly, annually, multi-year, or lifetime.
Qobuz has made it plans and pricing directly available, unlike Tidal that seems to require a trial subscription.

I am certain that Roon lifetime plan was paid for in advance :p

- Rich
 

RichB

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I want a lifetime plan paid afterwards.

Some discussion here is insightful, some technical, and then there are discoveries of pre-paid life-time subscriptions.
In fairness, at birth, the government enrolled my in a post-death plan. ;)

- Rich
 

Raindog123

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About [perceptual] detectability of ultrasonics... Can we please agree on terminology, once and forever?

Some folks 'out there' spend their lives (and some countries spend good chunk of their GDPs) trying to design 'LO' (low-observable), 'LPD/LPI' (low probability to detect/intercept) communication systems... as well as the detectors/interceptors to combat those. So, things are wa-a-ay past "if a signal is below noise/receiver sensitivity level then it's undetectable": [Hypothetically,] one can listen for longer time (integrate 'good' signal and cancel noise), one can run-in-circles or wobble their head (for spatial variation of the detector), one can train themselves to listen for 'many frequencies at once', or search for small periodic ('cyclostationary') artifacts. And a few other things...

However. If after all these tricks, the detector - our two ears and the brain - 'cannot detect and process this signal' (ie, extract information from it), cannot 'hear it', then - within this band for this sensor/detector - the signal does not exist, and does not transmit information that can be perceived in any form.

So, a very simple and practical question - with all the might of our 'beautiful minds' can we or can we not hear 22+kHz sounds (at the music levels)?
 
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RichB

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I think people are completely missing what MQA is doing as a technology solution. They created a way to perceptually encode ultrasonic and > 16 bit depth in music.

Do you honestly not see how utterly idiotic a notion that is?

Thank you both for the first belly-laugh of the day.

Inigo Montoya comments on "ultrasonics":

- Rich
 

levimax

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Ultimately, I believe this will be decided by Apple, Spotify, and perhaps Amazon. They will either accept or reject MQA files if/when they are submitted by Warner et al. It’ll be interesting to see what Spotify does when they roll out their high-res tier later this year.
This is what I worry about. While Amir says "don't worry be happy MQA is not going to fly" I think Mr. Dorsey entering the scene changes everything. When I think about the appeal to the record labels of having a compromised file format to protect the "jewels" along with some DRM/ Watermark like functionality combined with the marketing of "better than Hi-Res" to consumers and now having a credible and well connected billionaire involved I would not be surprised to see MQA take over. They only have to sell a few record companies and Internet companies on it and that's it, done deal game over. It will be viewed as a "win/win" by all but a few audiophiles and technical geeks.
 

RichB

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Apple, Spotify and don't forget Google/Youtube Music

Amazon Music HD made the first move and rejected MQA.

If the labels send 44.1/16 MQA files, Apple, Spotify, and Google will take them and distribute them without MQA royalty payments.
MQA got their royalty from the label.

- Rich
 

tmtomh

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In that respect, you are quite correct.
But it's not! It's done as a production step. See here and here for more info:

I don't want to sidetrack this discussion, and I also don't want to make assertions that exceed my own technical knowledge. So perhaps someone else with more expertise can chime in. That said, I don't see anything in the two linked documents/web pages - or in the statement that "the upsampling takes place before Dolby TrueHD encoding" that indicates that the apodizing reconstruction filter is applied anywhere other than, or prior to, playback. I see nothing that says it's baked into the digital content.
 

blueone

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I'm pretty sure the people that say it doesn't haven't tried, at least in long auditions and/or with MQA DAC's or properly configured. Otherwise, we won't be reading all this hate.

I have two rather modest DAC's: A Chord 2Qute (about US$1300 in its time) and a Project Pre Box Digital S2 (MQA enabled; $500; I bought it specifically to try if hardware decoded MQA was in fact better). When playing non MQA files, the Chord sounds a little better (in fact, I think Chord sounds more harmonically rich than most DACs I've tried, dozens of them). The Project DAC ( ESS 9038-Q2M) while very pleasant, has a little thinner sound. When not listening MQA files, I prefer that sweetness of the Chord unit.

But when it comes to MQA files, the switch from the Chord to the Project (with the DAC properly configured in the pc to decode by hardware, not that obvious) is instantly noticeable, even with the Chord already playing MQA unfolded by software. The sound opens up, with an obviously deeper soundstage with sounds floating freely in a larger space; more focused instruments, more precisely localized, with finer micro-detail and palpability in each one. You can resolve with more clarity things like the individual voices of singers, or the same singer overdubbed in a slightly different pitch. Bass notes have a clearly better perceived decay (and that with a thinner sounding DAC); resonance of drums or lower piano notes are more noticeable. There is a wider dynamic range. Perhaps the most evident element (besides that killing 3dimensionality) is the explosiveness of sounds with quick transients, like when a drumstick hits the border of the tom-tom, or the upper part of a cymbal, for example. Some not quite radical changes in timbre. Back to the Chord and the soundstage collapses immediately (even through the Metas...), some of all that finesse gone.

That said, there are a few records where the difference is not that much (never heard one worse though); on the other hand there are others where the improvements are just shocking: a sense of realism, of the musicians being here that is just intoxicating. Btw, normally the higher the sampling, the better it sounds (2L recordings are exceptionally good). But even with 44.1K there is an clear improvement. I listen mostly jazz (from 50's onwards), classical (Beethoven to Bartok, some baroque), some electronic music (Hecker, Fennesz, Frost, Subotnick...). Occasionally some pop or classic rock. By far the most I listen is the ECM catalog that's almost completely available in MQA, and although many are only in 44.1K, even then when I compare them with my own CD's (my unit as a transport to the same DAC)... well... it is unfair, there is simply no comparison.

Some of these things may be noticeable because of some remasterizations available in MQA. It is a good question if those would be available if not for some protection for the publisher provided with MQA authentication. I don't have QoBuz, and to be honest, this same MQA passionate war is held in a local site in my country. Some users swear they don't hear differences between Tidal (192K) and HR files of QoBuz (also available there, same sampling); for example this was the comment of somebody about the "Ultimate Mix" of Lennon's first post-Beatles work, the beautiful "Plastic Ono Band". Perhaps, but all I can tell is that compared with my CD, the difference of this master is just light years.

”Bass notes have a better perceived decay?” Seriously? Since JA liked this post perhaps he can get you squeezed into the subjective reviewers list at Stereophile. It reads a lot like what I’ve read in the past in Stereophile and The Absolute Sound.

BTW, are you using cable elevators like JA used to (or does)?
 

muslhead

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”Bass notes have a better perceived decay?” Seriously? Since JA liked this post perhaps he can get you squeezed into the subjective reviewers list at Stereophile. It reads a lot like what I’ve read in the past in Stereophile and The Absolute Sound.

BTW, are you using cable elevators like JA used to (or does)?
if so, they must be the burned in variety
 

voodooless

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I see nothing that says it's baked into the digital content.

That is literally what is says: upsampling takes place BEFORE encoding. And they use the anodizing filter to do the upsampling.. I’m not sure how much clearer you want to have it?
 

tmtomh

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That is literally what is says: upsampling takes place BEFORE encoding. And they use the anodizing filter to do the upsampling.. I’m not sure how much clearer you want to have it?

I don’t mean to be disagreeable (or dense!) - I’m just not sure that the apodizing filter is actually part of the upsampling algorithm. I know they kind of make it sound like that, but that’s typical of marketspeak and I’m not sure it’s the case. I would think it more likely that they just double every sample to push the Nyquist frequency upwards, and then run an apodizing filter on that 96k stream/content during playback.

Again, I’m sure there are folks here who can provide a definitive answer.
 
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