MQA Deep Dive - I published music on tidal to test MQA

[calt]

I am currently working on a video investigating MQA and the performance of the "Unfolding" technique.
For this I had some tracks published on tidal, in MQA. These tracks contained various test signals such as impulse response, square wave, white noise, multitone, and even the entire RMAA test sequence.

After collecting all evidence and documenting all the discovered issues (some of which have not yet been discussed elsewhere), I contacted MQA to give them a chance to comment prior to this video (and post here) going live, and to discuss it further if needed, or to do further testing if they felt there was an issue.

They have not responded to me, BUT, they have had my tracks pulled from Tidal, and have spoken to the publisher I used to have them block me.


The tracks are still up on some sites such as Deezer, and I have the MQA encoded files saved as well as analog recordings of a full-decode. And I will share these in the final post and video so that others can look into them.

But for now, I'm just posting this quickly in order to inform people that MQA's response to me reaching out, rather than publishing without getting their side, was to attempt to censor me, and I want to ask that a few people confirm the track's presence on services before it is fully gone, such that they cannot later claim it was never there (though as mentioned, I do still have the MQA encoded files anyway).
If you go in roon and search for "The Callout" by GoldenSound, you will still see that it shows as being on Tidal, in MQA in their DB. Though I'm sure this will not be for long.

The tracks have been removed from tidal, but are still up on other services. They will likely be gone from there soon too.
The video and post, as well as the tracks themselves, should hopefully prove quite useful for anyone wanting to look further into what MQA is doing.

For a company which has nothing to hide, this sure is a very hostile way of responding to criticism.

Amazing, when and where can we see your findings?

 

[nimar]

Fun shenanigans , the only thing a streaming services has to do is just to stream 24/96 and be done with it. if that's what's their hires tier customers wants (24/48 if that's the highest res master for the album )

Or 16/44 and 16/48 if really want to get down to brass tacks

 

[GoldenOne]

Amazing, when and where can we see your findings?

They will be up first on my youtube channel https://youtube.com/goldensound.

I'll post a written format version here, head-fi, and on audiophilestyle after

 

[Archimago]

Impressive work @GoldenOne .

Looking forward to what you find! No surprise that they're responding the way they are...

 

[GoldenOne]

Video is up.
I'll be writing a full written version which will be posted here, head-fi, audiophilestyle etc, and will share the original masters, MQA encoded versions, and unfolded (both first unfold and analog recording of full decode) versions so others can test and look into the files themselves too.

MQA did respond to me, and their response is discussed at the end of the video (timestamps in description and playbar)

 

[Tks]

LOL what a legend, he snuck in content that can be used to test MQA, after the sad and miserably gatekeepers realized he was trying to do it the first time openly, and evidently had a problem. The publisher claimed simple tones can't be encoded? Hilarious.

This is basically all that ever needs to be said about MQA anymore. Until proper third parties are allowed to audit the source code, and the ecoders/decoders themselves.

This video needs to make rounds on Reddit. /r/audiophile and /r/headphones at the very least.

 

[Nationalizer]

$100 they will try to take that ^^ video down.

 

[PierreV]

Video is up.
I'll be writing a full written version which will be posted here, head-fi, audiophilestyle etc, and will share the original masters, MQA encoded versions, and unfolded (both first unfold and analog recording of full decode) versions so others can test and look into the files themselves too.

MQA did respond to me, and their response is discussed at the end of the video (timestamps in description and playbar)

Outstanding demolition.

I hope the leaky filter accepted your apologies. That was really the cherry on top of the cake!

 

[Tks]

$100 they will try to take that ^^ video down.

Sure if they're imbeciles still unaware of the basic Streisand Effect that is heightened ever since the advent of the internet.

 

[mansr]

Video is up.
I'll be writing a full written version which will be posted here, head-fi, audiophilestyle etc, and will share the original masters, MQA encoded versions, and unfolded (both first unfold and analog recording of full decode) versions so others can test and look into the files themselves too.

MQA did respond to me, and their response is discussed at the end of the video (timestamps in description and playbar)

A quick comment: you refer to a "third unfold." No such thing exists. I know because I reverse engineered the "rendering" process completely.

 

[GoldenOne]

A quick comment: you refer to a "third unfold." No such thing exists. I know because I reverse engineered the "rendering" process completely.

Yep i'd agree, it seems its just a fixed upsampling filter and nothing more than MQA marketing
(I used your tools for parts of this video and thanked you at the end <3, though I wasn't unfortunately able to get your mqabgen tool working, either after making on linux or using the windows version someone posted on APS.)

You've done some absolutely fantastic stuff

 

[nimar]

Yep i'd agree, it seems its just a fixed upsampling filter and nothing more than MQA marketing
(I used your tools for parts of this video and thanked you at the end <3, though I wasn't unfortunately able to get your mqabgen tool working, either after making on linux or using the windows version someone posted on APS.)

You've done some absolutely fantastic stuff

Did you run it on arm hardware? With only a little fiddling I got it running on a Pi4.

Nicely done btw.

 

[bboris77]

Video is up.
I'll be writing a full written version which will be posted here, head-fi, audiophilestyle etc, and will share the original masters, MQA encoded versions, and unfolded (both first unfold and analog recording of full decode) versions so others can test and look into the files themselves too.

MQA did respond to me, and their response is discussed at the end of the video (timestamps in description and playbar)

Fantastic work!!!

As pleased as I am to find out the truth about what is happening with MQA and Tidal, I am also very upset that Qobuz is not available in Canada and Amazon Music HD's exclusive mode may or may not be bit-perfect. If I leave Tidal, I kind of have no alternative for lossless streaming at this point in Canada.

@GoldenOne , have you done any testing on Amazon Music HD that would be able to confirm once for all whether their "semi-exclusive" mode is truly bit-perfect?

The issue is that this mode outputs at the exact sample rate that your Windows mixer is set at.

 

[GoldenOne]

Did you run it on arm hardware? With only a little fiddling I got it running on a Pi4.

Nicely done btw.

Yeah I was running it on a pi4. The command would execute but with no console response and the file would remain unchanged.
If you have a 'made' version that is working would you mind sending it to me? Most likely I just screwed something up whilst doing that

 

[pjug]

Fantastic work!!!

As pleased as I am to find out the truth about what is happening with MQA and Tidal, I am also very upset that Qobuz is not available in Canada and Amazon Music HD's exclusive mode may or may not be bit-perfect. If I leave Tidal, I kind of have no alternative for lossless streaming at this point in Canada.

@GoldenOne , have you done any testing on Amazon Music HD that would be able to confirm once for all whether their "semi-exclusive" mode is truly bit-perfect?

The issue is that this mode outputs at the exact sample rate that your Windows mixer is set at.

You might be able to sign up for Qobuz with a VPN (you shouldn't need a VPN after sign up). If that does not work I would move to Deezer rather than put up with what Tidal is doing. I changed from Deezer to Qobuz, but really I thought Deezer's 16-bit flac was just fine.

 

[voodooless]

Very nice video! Would be curious to see the RMAA output of the unfolded high res version vs original regarding noise, distortion and IMD.

 

[richard12511]

If I leave Tidal, I kind of have no alternative for lossless streaming at this point in Canada.

Based on what @GoldenOne has shown, even with Tidal, you already have no options for lossless streaming. Tidal doesn't offer lossless streaming, as MQA is not lossless.

 

[Racheski]

Awesome job. It would also be great if Amir could make a video on MQA that incorporates @GoldenOne video evidence, & officially stamps MQA as snake oil. MQA should be in the same bucket as expensive cables, overpriced power supplies, & noise harvesters.

 

[bboris77]

Based on what @GoldenOne has shown, even with Tidal, you already have no options for lossless streaming. Tidal doesn't offer lossless streaming, as MQA is not lossless.

The way I understood it, Tidal is lossless for anything that is not "Master Quality".

 

[nimar]

Based on what @GoldenOne has shown, even with Tidal, you already have no options for lossless streaming. Tidal doesn't offer lossless streaming, as MQA is not lossless.

I switched Roon to HiFi and don't recall seeing any MQA since. Though I suppose it depends on the label/artists as there may really be no other version. Even for albums which don't present any other version's in Roon.

eg. They're Calling Me Home by Rhiannon Giddens. Roon shows FLAC 48khz 24bit, MQA 96khz.

Playback shows redbook

Actually I'm wrong, Roon's just playing it back as if it were unable to decode MQA but the underlying file is actually MQA.

That's a pain.