MQA Deep Dive - I published music on tidal to test MQA

[stopbeingalentil]

Beautiful words. Here is a mental image for you. Imagine Donald saying "smearing" with the same kind of tone he reserves for "Chiiiiiiina"

 

[amirm]

(I did not see the post in question, but following you for a while, I do believe your civility...)

And you would be mistaken in that if you had read other things he says about us in other fora. Here is an example of his posts:

Obvious ties to SMSL/Topping? They have it in everything??? You think anyone saying that about me is an upstanding citizen?

What he quoted after that had nothing to do with "pushing DRM schemes." It was an email I sent to Bill Gates letting him know that we were trying to get our hardware ecosystem of players to be as good as Apple's which had seamless Fairplay DRM integration.

Goldeneye proceeds to more sensational conspiracy theories.

Adam took an initiative to call him and offer to have a new thread where I would NOT post (as to keep tensions low) and he could start over. He went and disclosed that call with his own spin as a nefarious thing to do:

So yeh, we are to hire more moderators so that the food fights that he created can continue. And that I better say nothing or else. We go out of our way to allow dissent in this forum and to have it toiled this way is in very poor form.

Net, net, while he did some good work, I consider GodenEye to be a bad actor here. We are providing incredible visibility and traffic for his videos and yet he brings nothing but disdain towards us. Keep your guard up. Don't believe him because he sounds calm and collected in his videos.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I'm not a linguistics expert but to me, personally, it was very clear from how he worded things where evidence-based facts ended and his own opinion and interpretation began... I'm curious to learn what exactly you took offense with in that regards if you can quote it... at any rate I think there are worlds in between his rethoric and MQA's

Guess I started it.
I didn't take offense. It's that he talks about some of MQA's reply being carefully worded to be technically correct but not actually correct. And that MQA doesn't reply based on evidence.

For the most part GoldenOne has been true to the evidence and is objective. However some stuff which is not really relevant to the original topic(the how and why of the removal of the test files) are not exactly based on evidence and rely on guesses and feeling to form an opinion that's heavily implied. I think that's where it's a little too far. Could have been: Ok I'll take your word for it but would you provide.... or guide us ..... to test .....

There must be some ways that MQA agrees on right. And to my understanding any music will probably show the MQA is lossy and not as good as CD quality.

 

[JohnYang1997]

And you would be mistaken in that if you had read other things he says about us in other fora. Here is an example of his posts:

View attachment 132333

Obvious ties to SMSL/Topping? They have it in everything??? You think anyone saying that about me is an upstanding citizen?

What he quoted after that had nothing to do with "pushing DRM schemes." It was an email I sent to Bill Gates letting him know that we were trying to get our hardware ecosystem of players to be as good as Apple's which had seamless Fairplay DRM integration.

Goldeneye proceeds to more sensational conspiracy theories.

Adam took an initiative to call him and offer to have a new thread where I would NOT post (as to keep tensions low) and he could start over. He went and disclosed that call with his own spin as a nefarious thing to do:

View attachment 132336

So yeh, we are to hire more moderators so that the food fights that he created can continue. And that I better say nothing or else. We go out of our way to allow dissent in this forum and to have it toiled this way is in very poor form.

Net, net, while he did some good work, I consider GodenEye to be a bad actor here. We are providing incredible visibility and traffic for his videos and yet he brings nothing but disdain towards us. Keep your guard up. Don't believe him because he sounds calm and collected in his videos.

omg....

 

[amirm]

I am not saying with certainty that MQA removed my files.

Oh? This is right at the start of your OP:

I did contact MQA prior to posting the video (and this post), but their reaction was to immediately have my tracks removed from Tidal, and to have the publisher remove all my content.

Where is the uncertainty in that? There isn't. You screamed fire in a crowded theater with, "big bad company came after poor me" and folks came to your defense. As it turns out, now you realize you exaggerated/assumed, etc. and are trying to soften the message. That is fine but the right thing to do is be very clear and change your original statements. Don't go revising history.

 

[GoldenOne]

I absolutely did not put "spin" on the phone call and in the interest of transparency if you're happy to provide permission I am quite happy to post the full recording of the call so that anyone can listen and judge for themselves.

 

[MDT]

For the most part GoldenOne has been true to the evidence and is objective. However some stuff which is not really relevant to the original topic(the how and why of the removal of the test files) are not exactly based on evidence and rely on guesses and feeling to form an opinion that's heavily implied. I think that's where it's a little too far. Could have been: Ok I'll take your word for it but would you provide.... or guide us ..... to test .....

If that's the strongest criticism of OP, you're really reaching.

 

[JohnYang1997]

If that's the strongest criticism of OP, you're really reaching.

? What? That's the point. I HAD nothing to be against GoldenOne(until post Amir showed just now).
Guess I just stepped in the muddiest water. Better not to be fully in. I'm out.

 

[bboris77]

 

[stopbeingalentil]

Guess I started it.
I didn't take offense. It's that he talks about some of MQA's reply being carefully worded to be technically correct but not actually correct. And that MQA doesn't reply based on evidence.

For the most part GoldenOne has been true to the evidence and is objective. However some stuff which is not really relevant to the original topic(the how and why of the removal of the test files) are not exactly based on evidence and rely on guesses and feeling to form an opinion that's heavily implied. I think that's where it's a little too far. Could have been: Ok I'll take your word for it but would you provide.... or guide us ..... to test .....

There must be some ways that MQA agrees on right. And to my understanding any music will probably show the MQA is lossy and not as good as CD quality.

I think it was fair to point out the temporal correlation between him contacting MQA and his tracks being removed from Tidal. Also - unless he's outright lying - him saying that the publisher didn't respond to his request whether the take-down was requested by MQA is in fact a factual statement, which framed that context as a sort of closed bracket... personally, I'm fine with that, because it was very apparent to me what he intended to present as fact and what he didn't.

You'd hope there must be a way that MQA agrees on anything but I think you're wrong about that. They don't have to agree to anything. In fact, they have a strong incentive to shut this down. If they had factual evidence supporting any of their claims, then they'd have brought it up by now... not just in reaction to Golden's video but way before that... Instead their rethoric is based on a complex web of self-reference, scientific sounding choices of words, and discreditation of critics by means of hammering out a red herring argument about said critics credentials, intentions, or methodology without providing alternative factual information. Heck, even their "research papers" aren't peer reviewed by anyone outside of their sphere that has any credentials they so keep on insisting on...

so yeah... unfortunately MQA is an undead horse, so I think it's only fair to keep beating it until the silver bullet to take them down has been found... the prevalence of MQA in consumer gear is already concerning - especially because we're now at the point of getting releases exclusively in MQA

 

[MDT]

? What? That's the point. I HAD nothing to be against GoldenOne(until post Amir showed just now).
Guess I just stepped in the muddiest water. Better not to be fully in. I'm out.

Then I don't understand what the point of your last few posts are. You seem to take issue with OP, accusing them of a double standard. But it's nitpicking over how something is worded to a silly degree. In the grand scheme of this discussion, it seems like an odd point to pick up on.

 

[stopbeingalentil]

Then I don't understand what the point of your last few posts are. You seem to take issue with OP, accusing them of a double standard. But it's nitpicking over how something is worded to a silly degree. In the grand scheme of this discussion, it seems like an odd point to pick up on.

on the plus side: if that's what people - including, and especially Amir - pick on, one could deduct that the rest of his post was pretty darn solid

 

[JohnYang1997]

Then I don't understand what the point of your last few posts are. You seem to take issue with OP, accusing them of a double standard. But it's nitpicking over how something is worded to a silly degree. In the grand scheme of this discussion, it seems like an odd point to pick up on.

Wasn't that the point Amir was trying to make?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-music-on-tidal-to-test-mqa.22549/post-797246

 

[GoldenOne]

Adam took an initiative to call him and offer to have a new thread where I would NOT post (as to keep tensions low) and he could start over. He went and disclosed that call with his own spin as a nefarious thing to do:

As mentioned above, I absolutely did not put "spin" on the conversation.

In the interest of transparency I am happy to post the full call here if you/adam provide permission so that anyone can listen and hear the full context and content.

 

[MDT]

Wasn't that the point Amir was trying to make?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-music-on-tidal-to-test-mqa.22549/post-797246

I don't understand why you are linking to a post of Amir's that quotes OP's original post. OP has clarified this point in his latest video. Can you add some more words to your post to clarify what your are trying to say here?

 

[JohnYang1997]

I don't understand why you are linking to a post of Amir's that quotes OP's original post. OP has clarified this point in his latest video. Can you add some more words to your post to clarify what your are trying to say here?

no

 

[Jimbob54]

Well this thread is taking some unexpected turns. Intense!

 

[Raindog123]

(I did not see the post in question, but following you for a while, I do believe your civility...)

And you would be mistaken in that if you had read other things he says about us in other fora...

Wow.

I guess I have just two questions for @GoldenOne, to have the full picture:

1) Why did not you want to take 'the deal' - to start a new thread and help Amir, the ASR owner and everything that comes with it, to stay out of MQA discussions? What was wrong about it?

2) What was that ‘ASP information‘ (on why Amir is so ‘defensive about MQA’)? Was it anyhow credible? And - along those lines - did your realize that your 'Amir-Topping tie' was wa-a-ay far-fetching and even offensive - as it could be easily explained by mere Topping’s popularity? ...unless you do have something to back it up?

 

[abdo123]

@GoldenOne

We have a saying in my culture. It’s rude to sit in daddy’s lap and then proceed to painfully pull out hair from his beard.

This forum is built on trust and continues to function based on trust, the members collectively help with the maintenance costs via donations while Amir runs the whole thing and provides like 90% of meaningful content.

When you make such accusations without proof just because Amir had a different opinion on some ****** topic you basically belittled the collective effort that this community have done to provide engineering based reproducible data of thousands of gear. It’s insulting and petty.

 

[GoldenOne]

This thread is devolving into ad-hominem attacks in both directions. This is supposed to be about MQA.

Continuing the discussion without the relevant context (the contents of the phone call) will just make things messier.
I think it would be best either if permission were given to post that, which would be the most transparent and fair way.

Or to drop it....as said, this is supposed to be a discussion about MQA.