• Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

MQA: A Review of controversies, concerns, and cautions

Status
Not open for further replies.
Youtube is too good to be true. Anyone can upload content to it and consume it for free. When the video is embedded like we do here, they don't even run ads against it! So it reasons that Google tries to make money from it using protected content.
 
And as for this business of MQA-style shenanigans being hard, or it being difficult to develop a perceptual codec... it's not. It could easily be one person in a bedroom type stuff.

I'm no mathematician, but I know how to process overlapping windows of sampled data with an FFT, do a bit of heuristic rules-based messing about with the results (maintain full resolution here, quantise resolution there, discard some bins) based on human hearing sensitivity curves and the much praised 'masking'. Then do the reverse FFT on the simplified data. I could cobble something together in an afternoon, I reckon. Maybe I'll try it...

One thing I know: if the main thrust of the task is compressing the ultrasonics i.e. the bits people can't hear anyway, it won't be too hard. I can then throw together some gibberish gobbledigook in a 'paper' to impress the masses, give some ego massaging interviews to the salivating audio press and I'm on my way...

Please set up a Patreon account so I may fund this endeavor.
 
From my unlofty and simple-minded POV. I have to seriously ask: What does MQA solve as a problem?

In the age of broadband video streaming and 4G phones, it doesn't solve anything.

When the internet was slower, MQA solved a problem. Now it's not needed.
 
Being a Late Adopter myself, I don't see MQA providing me any benefits or causing any problems for at least fifteen years, at which time I'll be 80, and not worried about anything.
 
You can wait 'till eternity and it won't happen. The main market is that of streaming lossy audio and MQA cannot and will not make a dent in that.

Of course MQA will fail. I never doubted that.

The point is that between its birth and its demise it will have caused unnecessary confusion and will have done unnecessary damage.
 
noise reduction though was a real concern with consumer tape speeds, and even pro tape speeds, you can hear tape noise of course. So, I would personally not even remotely connect dolby with MQA as first version dolby worked on solving a real audible problem (and yes dolby is somewhat lossy)

wow, this is a great thread by the way

I agree that it was an effective fix. I was alluding to it being a licenced add-on to mfrs products.
 
Let me trump that

"What's this www silliness? FTP with a GUI??? No-one will use that."


Me, 1993
Let me try at this game :

"Can't see how Facebook will ever make money! They'll fall flat on their face (pun intended)" Me, May 2012 ... :(

So I am taking my prediction of MQA-fail with a truckload of salt! When it happens (Mark my words :D), it wouldn't be because of my prodigious analytical skills :p
 
MQA may well take off, but if it does, all our uncompressed LPCM on CDs will become valuable for the next generation of Hipsters.

Honestly, I don't care one bit (haha pun intended). What's to stop anyone taking a MQA 'certified' analogue output and digitizing it at any sample rate they like, therefore creating non-watermarked, non MQA high res files of their own?

My concern is the folded back, non-harmonically related garbage it puts into the audible bandwidth. I want to see some actual tests using pure tones on an FFT- it won't be pretty...
 
MQA may well take off, but if it does, all our uncompressed LPCM on CDs will become valuable for the next generation of Hipsters.

Honestly, I don't care one bit (haha pun intended). What's to stop anyone taking a MQA 'certified' analogue output and digitizing it at any sample rate they like, therefore creating non-watermarked, non MQA high res files of their own?
You may have missed my earlier posts: if all new player hardware has MQA technology in it (why not?), this can be set up to act as a gatekeeper to prevent replay of anything that is not watermarked in the right way.

These debates were had 10-15 years ago, and legislation was even proposed:
H.R. 4569 would require all consumer electronics video devices manufactured more than 12 months after the DTCSA is passed to be able to detect and obey a "rights signaling system" that would be used to limit how content is viewed and used.
...all devices sold in the US would fall under the auspices of the DTCSA: it would be illegal to "manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide or otherwise traffic" in such products.
As far as I can tell, the music industry basically gave up on the whole idea at that time due to the practical difficulties. A difference today is that everything is becoming connected, so many of the problems in implementing such a system go away. Whether or not it is MQA, I don't see why this idea couldn't come round again. The offensive thing about MQA is that it changes the file contents - a bit like the watermarks that were proposed back in 2005.
 
PIRACY IS A CRIME!

Or: Why the industry tried to make us love DRM.

Underlying support for DRM is the industry’s claim that «piracy is not a victimless crime», etc.

Before watching a film you are warned that the Feds will come and take you if you share the content of the film disc.

We have become so used to this propaganda that we stoppes asking the right questions.

Last year, an EU report from 2014 on piracy was made public after a leak. EU tried to keep the report away from the public. Why?

Well, the report paints a nuanced picture of piracy. In some cases (games) piracy had a benign effect on sales. For music, there was no evidence of neither lower nor higher sales.

Here’s the report:

https://cdn.netzpolitik.org/wp-upload/2017/09/displacement_study.pdf

This is a science oriented site. So if we lean towards evidence, not dogma, we should be very skeptical against the industry’s piracy claims and DRM as a universal tool for increasing society’s economic surplus in cases that have to do with intellectual property.
 
:oops::rolleyes::rolleyes:I
PIRACY IS A CRIME!

Or: Why the industry tried to make us love DRM.

Underlying support for DRM is the industry’s claim that «piracy is not a victimless crime», etc.

Before watching a film you are warned that the Feds will come and take you if you share the content of the film disc.

We have become so used to this propaganda that we stoppes asking the right questions.

Last year, an EU report from 2014 on piracy was made public after a leak. EU tried to keep the report away from the public. Why?

Well, the report paints a nuanced picture of piracy. In some cases (games) piracy had a benign effect on sales. For music, there was no evidence of neither lower nor higher sales.

Here’s the report:

https://cdn.netzpolitik.org/wp-upload/2017/09/displacement_study.pdf

This is a science oriented site. So if we lean towards evidence, not dogma, we should be very skeptical against the industry’s piracy claims and DRM as a universal tool for increasing society’s economic surplus in cases that have to do with intellectual property.



If you think IP piracy is OK then get lots of duplicates made of your house and car keys, attach your address to them and freely hand them out to the public. :oops:
 
Last edited:
If it becomes ubiquitous, it means the consumer has spoken and wants it. In that case, that is it and we better not complain. :)

Fortunately the reality is different. Replacing CD streaming with MQA is simply not in the cards for reasons I mentioned. MQA has put itself in the encoding path which hugely limits how much content can be made available. It would take tens of millions of dollars to encode any significant library of content to compete with CD. And for what? The real music market has no need or care for something called MQA or high-resolution.

Let's also remember that MQA is absent from download market right now. That market continues to be served with digital PCM and DSD downloads.

@amirm , you wrote:

«
If it becomes ubiquitous, it means the consumer has spoken and wants it. In that case, that is it and we better not complain. :)

Fortunately the reality is different. Replacing CD streaming with MQA is simply not in the cards for reasons I mentioned. MQA has put itself in the encoding path which hugely limits how much content can be made available. It would take tens of millions of dollars to encode any significant library of content to compete with CD. And for what? The real music market has no need or care for something called MQA or high-resolution.

Let's also remember that MQA is absent from download market right now. That market continues to be served with digital PCM and DSD downloads.

@amirm , you wrote:

«If it becomes ubiquitous, it means the consumer has spoken and wants it. In that case, that is it and we better not complain».

Why is it that you conclude that a product which is everywhere is because «the consumer has spoken and wants it»?
Can you support that claim with evidence, science? What sort of science supports that claim?

«Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist. Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back»
John Maynard Keynes

Believing in the sacralized workings of the market is a bit naive, isn’t it? Wouldn’t a better description of the market process (in many practical cases) be that of certain interests wielding their power?
 
@amirm , you wrote:

«


@amirm , you wrote:

«If it becomes ubiquitous, it means the consumer has spoken and wants it. In that case, that is it and we better not complain».

Why is it that you conclude that a product which is everywhere is because «the consumer has spoken and wants it»?
Can you support that claim with evidence, science? What sort of science supports that claim?

«Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist. Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back»
John Maynard Keynes

Believing in the sacralized workings of the market is a bit naive, isn’t it? Wouldn’t a better description of the market process (in many practical cases) be that of certain interests wielding their power?

Quoting Keynes? Incredible. Economics masquerades as science. No specific predictability due to manipulated inputs and unreal outcome expectations.
 
Last edited:
:oops::rolleyes::rolleyes:I




If you think IP piracy is OK then get lots of duplicates made of your house and car keys, attach your address to them and freely hand them out to the public. :oops:

Where did I say «IP piracy is OK»?

I quoted a report which found piracy to have nuanced effects, a report that the EU wanted to withhold from public eye.

Stop making straw men and start discussing the subject matter, please.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom