Moving on from an LP12

[LTig]

Thanks good idea. Would I also need to address capacitance? I can’t find a Fireface 400 input capacitance figure

I would expect the input impedance to be rather low, due to it being designed as an instrument input. You could ask the RME support to be sure (maybe @MC_RME can chime in). If yes then it could be necessary to add some capacitance as well. Keep in mind though that the internal cabling in the arm and the signal cable of the LP12 do have non negligible capacitance as well, which may be already sufficient, depending on the pickups needs.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Personally I regret not buying one back in the day. It's an authentic piece of audiophile history. If I had one with a Lynn Itok arm, I'd keep it and a few hundred of my favorite pieces of vinyl in perpetuity. I say that knowing its performance today is bested even by a $10 Amazon dongle dac, but, even so, it just looks so cool. Personally I have no room for one anymore, but AFAIC, it's a work of audio art and one of the best pieces of audio history you can possibly own. Just so classic, elegant and understated, and, for its time, it was right on the cutting edge of what could be done in home audio. And it will sound good even today, just not as good as good digital.

 

[DSJR]

Personally I regret not buying one back in the day. It's an authentic piece of audiophile history. If I had one with a Lynn Itok arm, I'd keep it and a few hundred of my favorite pieces of vinyl in perpetuity. I say that knowing its performance today is bested even by a $10 Amazon dongle dac, but, even so, it just looks so cool. Personally I have no room for one anymore, but AFAIC, it's a work of audio art and one of the best pieces of audio history you can possibly own. Just so classic, elegant and understated, and, for its time, it was right on the cutting edge of what could be done in home audio. And it will sound good even today, just not as good as good digital.

The LP12 has too much baggage and old ones so flaky now (main bearings on some, plinth splits on others, a pre-Cirkus sub-chassis that is simply not resnance-free enough to work properly with Ittoks and other massy arms - why the thing was called a 'fruitbox' by many doe to bass colouration adding a musical 'bloom' to bass notes.

My issue now is the hellish cost of improving the thing and the fact that as I said above, practically everything has been changed (for the better) since the early red-button models of half a century ago and even the top plate has had underside mods as in the extra bolt in the motor corner (invisibly from the top and only usable if the plinth has full corner fillets).

You know, using 'digital' masterings as a generic reference, I'd suggest a modern Rega 3RS with EBLT, Neo as standard and neutral pickup, is really all you'd need (I've not directly compared with a Technics I admit).

 

[LTig]

The LP12 has too much baggage and old ones so flaky now (main bearings on some, plinth splits on others, a pre-Cirkus sub-chassis that is simply not resnance-free enough to work properly with Ittoks and other massy arms - why the thing was called a 'fruitbox' by many doe to bass colouration adding a musical 'bloom' to bass notes.

Seems I'm lucky having bought mine with the Cirkus sub-chassis in 1994. Never had any problems with it. What I have heard is that the older models regularly needed a service for proper functioning of the sub-chassis.

 

[spiral scratch]

As another person who recently acquired a LP 12 I could maybe add a few things here. I haven’t actually gotten the thing running yet and I still need to find a suitable arm for it, but I have been reading a lot about getting things working properly.

If the deck suspension is set up properly to begin with it can run trouble free for many years. If it’s not set up properly it can shift out within a matter of months or if it’s moved. You can check the suspension by pressing down on and releasing the platter about 2/3 from the main bearing to tone arm pivot. it should oscillate smoothly up and down not side to side. If it doesn’t move properly you’ll need to reset the suspension.

You can also remove the board on the underside of the plinth and try it that way. It apparently makes a resonant chamber which isn’t so great.

The original bearing has a white inner sleeve and you only want to use mineral oil in that bearing. The Mobil Velocite 6 was what Linn originally used, but any ISO 10 spindle oil is fine. Some people use sewing machine oil which is lighter than ISO 10 (ISO 22 I think?) so depends on how you feel about those things. Don’t use the “Black” oil that is used for the later bearings, it will swell the inner sleeve and seize the bearing.

If you can find a Valhalla board and get it refurbished, that’s about the only upgrade I would recommend bothering with an original deck like yours.

There’s a lot of info about properly setting up an LP 12 at the Cymbiosis website.

It has a cult following. Some people really love those original decks and don’t care for the sound of the upgraded models. They definitely will impart a sonic signature.

 

[Jas0_0]

You could use input 3+4 in instrument mode (470 kOhm input impedance) with 18 dB analog gain. Just connect a resisistor in parallel to each input to get the desired input impedance. With 24 bits at hand you won't miss anything by applying a bit of digital gain.

I’m about to take the plunge with this - can I just check my working?

I ordered some Neutrik 1/4” TS plugs and will order some resistors and capacitors too.

I have an old Linn tonearm cable with RCA plugs so will cut these off and wire in the 1/4” Neutriks.

Then I solder both a resistor (ChatGPT recommends 52k ohm for the 470k ohm RME inputs) and a capacitor (ChatGPT suggests 220pF for my old Ortofon VMS30mkii for which I’ve just found a replacement shibata stylus supplier) between the tip and the sleeve of each plug?

This is probably a very dumb question, but I have no experience with resitors/capacitors - do I need to keep the resistor/capacitor legs separate from each other when soldering? Should I add any insulating shrink tube anywhere?

Anything else to be aware of?

Many thanks,

James

 

[Cote Dazur]

Before I discovered ASR I bought a Linn LP12. I realise many here might have considered that a bad idea

First, congratulation on acquiring a classic TT such as the Linn LP12. If purchased for the right reasons, it is a great idea.
I have had a LP12 for over 30 years, many “updates”, as I advanced in experience in this hobby, I know now it is just a TT, like any other, but at the same time it still play records as well as any other, still looks great, if you are like me and do not need the cash, keep it.
I also have a Technic TT in my second system, it also plays record well.
There is many reason to keep enjoying listening to LP’s, even if it is not the top of the chain anymore for technical accuracy, for many it is still more than capable to communicate musical emotion. As with any physical media player, the tactical interaction and the visual presence plays a role. To me having a LP12 in my system shelf is part of the enjoyment. I cannot say the same about the Technic, although I also had it for a long time, it is more like a utility, practical and efficient, but highly replaceable.

 

[LTig]

I’m about to take the plunge with this - can I just check my working?

I ordered some Neutrik 1/4” TS plugs and will order some resistors and capacitors too.

I have an old Linn tonearm cable with RCA plugs so will cut these off and wire in the 1/4” Neutriks.

Then I solder both a resistor (ChatGPT recommends 52k ohm for the 470k ohm RME inputs)

52k ohm is correct. 51k ohm gives 46k ohm load, and 56k ohm gives 50k ohm load.

and a capacitor (ChatGPT suggests 220pF for my old Ortofon VMS30mkii for which I’ve just found a replacement shibata stylus supplier) between the tip and the sleeve of each plug?

If the 220 pF are the recommended load (what I assume now) then you have to subtract the existing capacitance from this value, which is the sum of

• the capacitance of the internal within within the TT
• the capacitance of the signal cable from TT to audio interface
• the input capacitance of the soundcards input

Chances are that this sum comes close to 220 pf so just omit any additional capacitor for now.

This is probably a very dumb question, but I have no experience with resitors/capacitors - do I need to keep the resistor/capacitor legs separate from each other when soldering?

No.

Should I add any insulating shrink tube anywhere?

Only if there's a chance for a shortcut. The Neutriks are easy to solder - first solder the resistor to the shield, then the live wire and the other side of the resistor to the pin in the middle, then the wire ground to the shield. Then you won't need any additional insulation.

 

[Jas0_0]

52k ohm is correct. 51k ohm gives 46k ohm load, and 56k ohm gives 50k ohm load.

If the 220 pF are the recommended load (what I assume now) then you have to subtract the existing capacitance from this value, which is the sum of

• the capacitance of the internal within within the TT
• the capacitance of the signal cable from TT to audio interface
• the input capacitance of the soundcards input

Chances are that this sum comes close to 220 pf so just omit any additional capacitor for now.

No.

Only if there's a chance for a shortcut. The Neutriks are easy to solder - first solder the resistor to the shield, then the live wire and the other side of the resistor to the pin in the middle, then the wire ground to the shield. Then you won't need any additional insulation.

Amazing thank you.

The cartridge asks for 400pF so I think the 220pF value is ChatGPT compensating for cable capacitance - is that right?

 

[LTig]

Amazing thank you.

The cartridge asks for 400pF so I think the 220pF value is ChatGPT compensating for cable capacitance - is that right?

Nobody knows how ChatGPT comes to its results - not even the designers, I think.

 

[spiral scratch]

Amazing thank you.

The cartridge asks for 400pF so I think the 220pF value is ChatGPT compensating for cable capacitance - is that right?

best to hook a LCR meter up to one side of your cables at head shell or RCA without the cartridge. Then you'll know exactly how much the capacitance is that you need to add. Cable capacitance could be anywhere from <100pF to >200pF having measured several myself.