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MOTU UltraLite-mk5 Review (Audio Interface)

manisandher

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I know @manisandher was using the Roon convolver with an Ultralite but that was on Windows.

Not sure what's meant by 'Roon convolver'. But yes, I'm using the UltraLite with RoonBridge on a Win 10 PC.

My desire to use a Linux streamer with the UltraLite in my office was entirely one of aethetics. But as it happens, the PC I'm using is totally silent, in a smart slim black desktop case, and looks absolutely fine sitting next to the UltraLite on the shelf. Perhaps the only bugbear is that it's drawing around 80W instead of the much lower power requirement of a streamer . But I can live with this. The upside is that I have full access to MOTU's CueMix, and can still make use the UltraLite's inputs for recordings, and taking room measurements.

I'm still very happy with the performance of the UltraLite as a multi-channel DAC in a fully active setup, all setup and controlled within Roon. Not one hiccup to date.

Mani.
 

jtwrace

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Not sure what's meant by 'Roon convolver'. But yes, I'm using the UltraLite with RoonBridge on a Win 10 PC.

My desire to use a Linux streamer with the UltraLite in my office was entirely one of aethetics. But as it happens, the PC I'm using is totally silent, in a smart slim black desktop case, and looks absolutely fine sitting next to the UltraLite on the shelf. Perhaps the only bugbear is that it's drawing around 80W instead of the much lower power requirement of a streamer . But I can live with this. The upside is that I have full access to MOTU's CueMix, and can still make use the UltraLite's inputs for recordings, and taking room measurements.

I'm still very happy with the performance of the UltraLite as a multi-channel DAC in a fully active setup, all setup and controlled within Roon. Not one hiccup to date.

Mani.
Thanks Mani. Here is the Roon Convolver.

Using your W10 machine, what do you use as an endpoint? Do you mind sharing what build you did for the W10 silent pc? Unless RoPieee does add a new kernel (they just did 5.10) I think the Motu and W10 box would be the best economical solution as long as I could use my Apple MacBook and/or iOS device to control Roon. This setup of the Motu/W10 box would be much less expensive than the exaSound s88 one box solution.
 

temps

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What you describe seems possible. Although the learning curve is pretty steep once you get the hang of it everything becomes pretty easy. I have not used ADAT with CamillaDSP but when you put the interface in ADAT mode I can see 8 channels of TOSLINK input in mac os Audio MIDI settings (assuming at 44.1 or 48 kHz sample rate) so I see no issue routing those through CamillaDSP. You can set the master volume knob to function on any set of channels you want so you can leave channels 4-10 unaffected.

The main questions I would have with such a setup are:
1) Why not just do room correction in the PC if that is your source? I personally like the idea of a completely separate RPi 4 running CamillaDSP but I also don't use a PC as my source.
2) RME HDSP AIO Pro seems rather expensive, if you don't have that already I would probably just get a miniDSP usbstreamer or mchstreamer to handle USB to ADAT.

It's an audio production PC, so it can conflict with my DAW sometimes. Usually it's well behaved... other times, not so much. A lot depends on the complexity of the project and buffer setting so I'd rather just offload the room correction to a separate system and simplify things on the main PC.

An RME unit of one kind of another has to be at the heart of it. I've been using them forever and have been spoiled by their stability and Totalmix FX. I'd also like to have Digicheck so I can monitor certain aspects of the chain for latency, etc. I could probably get by without a HDSP AOI Pro... a Raydat may be better.

This sounds promising so I'll start my research. Thanks for giving me a hand up on that.
 

manisandher

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Thanks Mani. Here is the Roon Convolver.

Got it. I'm not using any convolution in my setup.

Using your W10 machine, what do you use as an endpoint?

My chain is as follows:

Win10 'music server' (with Roon Server) -> ethernet -> Win10 'audio PC' (with RoonBridge) -> USB -> UltraLite

The 'music server' is home-built, based on a simple i3 CPU. It runs Roon Server and performs all the Roon DSP - it has no trouble doing so. The 'audio PC' is a commercial offering, the Phasure Mach III, and acts as the Roon endpoint when running RoonBridge. It has a linear power supply feeding a HDPlex DC-DC supply. Passively cooled, and totally silent. It runs the whole Win10 OS entirely in RAM.

HTH.

Mani.
 

johnanon

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Using your W10 machine, what do you use as an endpoint? Do you mind sharing what build you did for the W10 silent pc? Unless RoPieee does add a new kernel (they just did 5.10) I think the Motu and W10 box would be the best economical solution as long as I could use my Apple MacBook and/or iOS device to control Roon. This setup of the Motu/W10 box would be much less expensive than the exaSound s88 one box solution.

Hi, I'm happy to confirm that a modest headless fanless W10 PC works fine with RoonBridge installed to run as a service connected directly to the UltraLite. I have an ACEPC T11 from a few years ago. It's quite low powered so very limited as a PC, but way overpowered just to act as an endpoint. A few observations:

- I bought it several years ago to support multichannel streaming from Roon connected to my AVR by HDMI. It was totally reliable in that configuration
- I set the BIOS/UEFI to reboot automatically after power was restored following a power cut
- I made sure that Automatic updates were disabled, and spent some time ensuring that the W10 installation was a clean and uncluttered as possible to maximise the chance of it simply working as an appliance doing one thing well
- Running RoonBridge as a service that starts automatically on booting up is pretty simple to configure

More recently, I retired the PC from this task after getting an AVR that streams Roon in stereo and multichannel directly. So when I got the UltraLite earlier this month it made sense to just try the UltraLite with the W10 box. Testing the operation of the UltraLite wasn't something I spent a lot of time on, but since I already had the PC configured as outlined above, it was a simple plug and play just to confirm that the UltraLite would work with Roon - which it did just fine. I know this might not be the right forum to make the next observation, but I got the impression that set up this way, the UL didn't sound as clear it does when I have it hooked up with either my Mac or the RPi4. It was just an impression, and I've not got the time or inclination to set up any proper comparison as I'd already decided to use the RPi4, but I'm mentioning this just for completeness
- The RPi4 costs less than half the cost of the ACEPC T11, but the difference here is small - and the work involved on the W10 route is probably half that for the RPi4. Either, together with the UltraLite, cost a fraction of exaSound gear
 

jtwrace

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@johnanon thanks for that. Using an RPi4 would be ideal as I own one running RoPieeeXL currently...I just didn't get how to really set it all up though as mentioned.
 

johnanon

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@johnanon thanks for that. Using an RPi4 would be ideal as I own one running RoPieeeXL currently...I just didn't get how to really set it all up though as mentioned.
I get that. Three weeks ago I'd read instructions saying things like "Clone the repo" and it was just so unintelligible to me that I felt I couldn't even start with a realistic chance of success.

I'm certainly no expert now, but what's different three weeks later is that using an SSH client to enter Linux command line instructions to the RPi4 isn't quite so alien to me. And I accept that learning a foreign language isn't something that everyone is up for - after all, our common goal is just listening to music.

For me, the big learning challenges have been:

- flashing an operating system (Ubuntu 21.04 server for RPi) on to a micro SD card. It's much the same process as for RoPieee: download the software and write it to the card with something like Balena Etcher. Guess you've already got that covered.
- logging on to a Linux command line over the local network using an SSH client or app. After using just windows-like graphical interfaces all my life, this feels like regressing to the last century - surely there has to be a different way? But to make this magic happen with the UltraLite, as you say, until RoPieee updates to a newer version of Linux, it's the only language spoken.
- editing text files such as the configuration file for CsmillaDSP. I found this part quite demanding, learning how to use a Linux app or package called vi. But I kept telling myself it would be worth it. For me it has paid off.

Armed the little knowledge I've gained over the past few weeks I've realised there may be a way to avoid using CamillaDSP to connect Roon (and the other RoPieee streaming sources) to the UltraLite using Ubuntu 21.04 on the RPi4. It involves using a standard Linux component called asoundrc, which I don't understand yet, so it's WIP for me. I need it for another reason, because I want CamillaDSP to do convolution for non-Roon sources. But it may also solve the problem of static on unused channels I mentioned before when connecting directly without CsmillaDSP. But even if I do solve that, it doesn't avoid the need to take a deep breath and dive in to these dark and scary-looking unfamiliar waters!
 

johnanon

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Hi John, good to see you over here.

I've implemented volume control in CamillaDSP and at the suggestion of @Daverz have used a FLIRC USB IR receiver to allow for remote control. I've pasted my python code below which is based on this link -> http://moodeaudio.org/forum/printthread.php?tid=1529. The only thing weird with it is that on Ubuntu Server /dev/input/by-id/usb-flirc.tv_flirc-if01-event-kbd is owned by root so it does not work without using chown to change ownership. I do this by adding the following line to sudo crontab -e so it gets changed on boot, @reboot chown username /dev/input/by-id/usb-flirc.tv_flirc-if01-event-kbd.

Code:
import evdev
from camilladsp import CamillaConnection
import sys

try:
    port = int(sys.argv[1])
except:
    print("Usage: Start CamillaDSP with the websocket server enabled:")
    print("> camilladsp -p4321 yourconfig.yml")
    print("Then run this script to print some parameters from the active config.")
    print("> python get_config.py 4321")
    sys.exit()

cdsp = CamillaConnection("127.0.0.1", port)
cdsp.connect()

def main():

  flirc=evdev.InputDevice('/dev/input/by-id/usb-flirc.tv_flirc-if01-event-kbd')
  flirc.grab()

  cdspvolume = cdsp.get_volume()
     
  for event in flirc.read_loop():
       if event.type == evdev.ecodes.EV_KEY:
            attrib = evdev.categorize(event)
            if attrib.keystate == 1:
                if attrib.keycode == 'KEY_DOWN':
                    if cdspvolume -1 >= -100:
                        cdsp.set_volume(cdspvolume - 1)
                        cdspvolume = cdsp.get_volume()
                    elif cdspvolume -1 <= -100:
                        cdsp.set_volume(-100)
                        cdspvolume = cdsp.get_volume()
           
                elif attrib.keycode == 'KEY_UP':
                    if cdspvolume + 1 < 0:
                        cdsp.set_volume(cdspvolume + 1)
                        cdspvolume = cdsp.get_volume()
       
                    elif cdspvolume + 1 >= 0:
                        cdsp.set_volume(0)
                        cdspvolume = cdsp.get_volume()
                       
            elif attrib.keystate == 2:
                if attrib.keycode == 'KEY_DOWN':
                    if cdspvolume -1 >= -100:
                        cdsp.set_volume(cdspvolume - 1)
                        cdspvolume = cdsp.get_volume()
                    elif cdspvolume -1 <= -100:
                        cdsp.set_volume(-100)
                        cdspvolume = cdsp.get_volume()
           
                elif attrib.keycode == 'KEY_UP':
                    if cdspvolume + 1 < 0:
                        cdsp.set_volume(cdspvolume + 1)
                        cdspvolume = cdsp.get_volume()
       
                    elif cdspvolume + 1 >= 0:
                        cdsp.set_volume(0)
                        cdspvolume = cdsp.get_volume()
           

if __name__ == '__main__':

  try:
    main()
  except KeyboardInterrupt:
    pass

For the sample rate switching I would look at https://github.com/scripple/alsa_cdsp. This should allow you to change the CamillaDSP sample based on the file you are playing, when CamillaDSP opens the loopback it will automatically set the sample rate on the Ultralite so no need to mess with the MOTU API. I also think it is possible to use this to setup different configurations for different channel formats (i.e. 2 channel vs 7.1).

Michael
Thanks Michael. I'll follow up on your suggestions
 

jtwrace

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@johnanon why wouldn't a NUC running W10 with Roon Server connected via USB to the Ultralite not work? This way I can eliminate the RPi4 all together and get around the oddities and still have my iOS and computer control? Right?
 

johnanon

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@johnanon why wouldn't a NUC running W10 with Roon Server connected via USB to the Ultralite not work? This way I can eliminate the RPi4 all together and get around the oddities and still have my iOS and computer control? Right?
I haven't tried that myself but I can't think of a reason why it wouldn't work. Gets round the oddities, as your say.

I have a vague recollection that for best audio quality Roon recommend separating the Core and Endpoint functions by using two devices. That's not something I've ever explored but you might want to check that out.
 

Nspace

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Today MotU released new firmware and drivers for the Ultralite-mk5.


v1.1.5+2140 (Release Date 2021-08-31)

Adds makeup gain to compressors.
Adds EQ to Reverb bus.
Adds support for mixing additional host output channels.
Allow moving loopback channels to host input channels 1 and 2.
Allow mixing host output channels in the Reverb Mix bus
Bug fixes and improvements.

https://motu.com/techsupport/technotes/firmwarechangelog/

There's an official video of the new features

 

Taswegian

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Today MotU released new firmware and drivers for the Ultralite-mk5.


v1.1.5+2140 (Release Date 2021-08-31)

Adds makeup gain to compressors.
Adds EQ to Reverb bus.
Adds support for mixing additional host output channels.
Allow moving loopback channels to host input channels 1 and 2.
Allow mixing host output channels in the Reverb Mix bus
Bug fixes and improvements.

https://motu.com/techsupport/technotes/firmwarechangelog/

There's an official video of the new features

Thanks for that. Looks to be some added features that will benefit live streamers where the device was lacking previously.
 

Davide

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The reconstruction filter looks custom, not one of the ESS preset ones.
Has it been checked whether it is linear or non-linear phase?
Given the professional nature of the product I do not exclude that it is non-linear (low latency).
 

Davide

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The reconstruction filter looks custom, not one of the ESS preset ones.
Has it been checked whether it is linear or non-linear phase?
Given the professional nature of the product I do not exclude that it is non-linear (low latency).
Nobody knows how to answer? Or at least if the filters are interchangeable ...
 

redeyes

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I just bought this device and have used it for about a week. So far minimal bugs in the routing software. Just restarting it usually fixes something not showing up right or whatever. No big deal as it works 99%. In terms of audio quality, it sounds perfect to me. The headphone jack is around .15 ohm and thats great for just about anything you can plug in. I currently am running 6x studio monitors, 1x subwoofer, 1x Tube headphone amp, A normal headphone amp, and a Burson Playmate 2. All running in line at the same time. I also routed a 2nd computer in via spdif in, so that can play back things as needed. USB stability has been perfect. The mic preamps seem just fine, and low noise. The loopback function is fantastic for streaming or recording whatever. Oh and im nearly sure the USB connection is galvanically isolated since I am NOT getting ground loops that usually drive me absolutely insane. 10/10 for my uses! I have to recommend it!
 

Davide

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Definitely not interchangeable, think it is linear phase based on impulse response but I can't seem to find the measurement at the moment so not sure.

Michael
Where do you see impulse response graph?
 
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