• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

MOTU UltraLite-mk5 Review (Audio Interface)

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
20,524
Likes
37,057
That is awesome! Maybe this will replace my Focusrite Scarlett 2i2. I was looking at 8i6, but that has no optical inputs, and RME optical inputs look like ADAT. I really only need SPDIF now for the 'wandering Puffin,' but I would like forward compatability with TosLink in case I end up with an optical Puffin at some point. This would also make the UltraLite a great choice for ripping digital from CDs, DVDs, etc.
Which RME were you considering? The Babyface and ADI both do ADAT and SPDIF.
 

Helicopter

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
2,693
Likes
3,944
Location
Michigan
Which RME were you considering? The Babyface and ADI both do ADAT and SPDIF.
I was looking at Fireface. I shouldn't need ADAT. I need coax SPDIF and I would like to have TosLink as well. Is the RME optical switchable to TosLink like this MOTU?
 

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
20,524
Likes
37,057
I was looking at Fireface. I shouldn't need ADAT. I need coax SPDIF and I would like to have TosLink as well. Is the RME optical switchable to TosLink like this MOTU?
From this page on the Fireface UC (there are a few different models of Fireface).

https://www.rme-audio.de/fireface-uc.html

Digital I/O

One ADAT I/O provides digital connection to mixers and converters. In combination with an ADI-8 DS/QS or OctaMic II, there are up to 16 analog inputs (respectively 12 @ 96 kHz). The coaxial SPDIF I/O (up to 192 kHz) is fully AES/EBU compatible. SPDIF can also be accessed through the optical I/O.

1626638527233.png
 

mdsimon2

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Messages
2,478
Likes
3,316
Location
Detroit, MI
This is way overkill for how it is currently being used (2 channel stereo with no Dirac LOL) but here is a SHD Studio + Ultralite Mk5 + RPi4 w/ CamillaDSP. Using SHD Studio as volume control and a Bobwire DAT1 to provide a 12V trigger out. Pretty awesome setup with Dirac, tons of input flexibility (streamer, USB, AES, TOSLINK and SPDIF), volume indication w/ remote, 10 channels of output w/ FIR on each output and 12V trigger. Very much an end game setup for DIY active speaker processing.

IMG_7170.jpeg


Michael
 
Last edited:

DWPress

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
966
Likes
1,388
Location
MI
Very much an end game setup for DIY active speaker processing.

I believe you are right! If I hadn't gotten my Okto I would have been all over this for my set up.
 

Vince2

Active Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2019
Messages
108
Likes
82
Location
Kentucky
I just set up a CamillaDSP configuration with TOSLINK input -> CamillaDSP -> 10 channel output, it was super easy once I realized I needed to enable resampling in CamillaDSP for this to work. So far latency seems really good with no noticeable lip sync issues but haven't set anything up in the configuration that would cause a delay (like FIR filters). Also have not listened long enough to make sure there are no weird clock sync issues over time but I really do no think there should be.

Man, if the mk5 had remote volume control this RPi 4 + mk5 setup would be an absolute miniDSP killer. Way more flexible processing power and way better analog performance than something like a 4X10HD.

Michael
They have remote control if you pair it through wifi and use the avb function.
 

andrewjohn007

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
182
Likes
221
The Mk5 has wifi?

It doesn't have wi-fi built into the unit itself, however you can access (screen share) your Mac on your LAN and control Cuemix and your media player. Also, you can download the Cuemix iOS app and potentially control the Mk5 remotely, but it would still need a Mac connected to the Mk5 via USB. I haven't done this myself, so it's just a theory at this point. I am running Cuemix on a Mac that is connected via USB. I can then screen share and control that Mac with another Mac, which basically becomes a remote.
 

mdsimon2

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Messages
2,478
Likes
3,316
Location
Detroit, MI
I did see the link below from almost 10 years ago describing using iOS for control when connected to another Mac.

https://motu.com/en-us/news/now-available-wireless-control-of-cuemix-from-your-ipad/

When I first got the Mk5 I tried to do something similar but have not been able to connect wirelessly and see no mention of this ability in the Mk5 user guide. Maybe it will be functionality added down the line?

Michael
 

somebodyelse

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 5, 2018
Messages
3,682
Likes
2,962
They have remote control if you pair it through wifi and use the avb function.
Have I missed something, or are you confusing the UltraLite AVB and the UltraLite Mk5? I'm pleasantly surprised that the Mk5 plays well with linux on the Pi given the problems linux users have encountered with the USB connection on the UltraLite AVB and the 8A. I had high hopes for those as controlling everything through a published network API is great, but the glitches and channel swaps on the USB audio were a deal breaker. If the Mk5 exposes the same API, say over a USB network interface, that would be great.
 

Vince2

Active Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2019
Messages
108
Likes
82
Location
Kentucky
I assumed that the ultrasound avb connection was maintained but I see now that the cuemix app has that function and only works remotely for iOS.
 

mdsimon2

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Messages
2,478
Likes
3,316
Location
Detroit, MI
FYI, I have found that when using the TOSLINK / SPDIF inputs there is a 1 sample delay between even (2, 4, 6, 8, 10) and odd (1, 3, 5, 7, 9) output channels. This is not an issue when using USB. Not a big deal but if you are using these for active speakers you definitely want to setup your channel routing such that even channels go to one side (left) and odd channels go to other side (right).

Michael
 

Quashie

New Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2021
Messages
2
Likes
1
This is a review and detailed measurements of the MOTU UltraLite-mk5 Audio Interface (ADC, DAC and headphone amplifier). It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me for testing. It costs US $595.

I like that the UltraLite-mk5 comes in metal chassis but otherwise, it doesn't look exciting with its black and white screen:

View attachment 139533

There are a lot of inputs and outputs here:

View attachment 139534

It may be a pilot error but I was unhappy to plug the thing in and not have Windows recognize it. Fortunately their download package and control app is pretty small. Once there, Windows recognized it as well as having the usual ASIO interface that I used for my testing. Upon starting its control app, it offered to update itself which I let it. Was nice to see online update this way.

There was something strange that I had not seen before. As I was testing the unit, all of a sudden it started to play things on its own! I realized some background app was accessing it. Usually when you use ASIO interface, it puts the device in exclusive mode. Doesn't seem to be the case here. You may want to unselect it as the default Windows device or you get mixing of its sound together with your main app!

These interfaces have a ton of functionality so fasten your belt as we go through them in steps.

MOTU UltraLite-mk5 DAC Measurements
Many people here are interested in using these professional interfaces in hifi applications so let's see how its DAC performs:

View attachment 139535

That is really good performance for an interface!

View attachment 139536

Typical of other pro interfaces there is a lot more output than 4 volt nominate that I measure at so let's look at the full spectrum:

View attachment 139537

If you have an amplifier with low gain, this is one way to can get better combined SNR.

Dynamic range is well short of desktop products but for an interface, it is OK:
View attachment 139538

Disappointing to the see the "ESS DAC chip IMD Hump" that we discovered some three years ago still manifesting itself in new products:
View attachment 139539

What a lousy company ESS is by not teaching all of its licensees how to solve this problem.

Multitone test shows excellent performance:

View attachment 139540

I was super pleasantly surprised to see the most accurate reconstruction filter I have seen in a DAC:
View attachment 139541

Notice the full flat response in audible band and then truncation before the "Nyquist" frequency of 22.05 kHz. Wonder if this is a custom filter. Further, there is no scalloping of the noise floor. Very well done here.

Jitter performance is very good although noise floor is a bit high:
View attachment 139542

Linearity is a bit disappointing seeing how error starts to accumulate before we get to the end of our sweep at -120 dB:

View attachment 139543

Even $99 DACs these days nail this test.

EDIT: Motu contacted me shortly after the review and said the problem was the EQ filters at 192 kHz overflowing with full amplitude signal. Shutting off the filters fixed the problem and even improved the linearity above. See: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...view-audio-interface.24777/page-3#post-840477


By this time in my testing of DACs, I am happy as only one test is left which usually doesn't show anything untoward, namely the THD+N vs frequency. Such was not here:

View attachment 139544

What on earth is going on here in red? Investigating, I realized the sample rate was at 192 kHz. Strangely, when I switched to 48 kHz, the problem vanishes! Keeping at 192 kHz, we clearly see the problem at 100 Hz:

View attachment 139545

This is all artifacts right in the audible band! I can't think of any instrumentation that would cause such a problem. MOTU needs to investigate this and figure what is going on here.

MOTU UltraLite-mk5 ADC Measurements
There are both mic capable inputs and line level. I started testing with the Mic input set to its lowest gain:

View attachment 139547

Performance is nearly as good as line input which is nice:

View attachment 139548

This again is an excellent result:

View attachment 139549

Dynamic range is good especially at full 12 volt input:
View attachment 139550

Nothing of note in frequency response:
View attachment 139551

Linearity is underperforming though due to noise:

View attachment 139552

IMD distortion is good:
View attachment 139553


MOTU UltraLite-mk5 Headphone Amplifier Measurements
Headphone interfaces are usually pretty bad on audio interfaces. Let's see how it performs here:

View attachment 139555

There is really good news here as far as low distortion+noise. Not so good is the 2 volt output which limits power similar to portable headphone dongles at high impedances:
View attachment 139556

And low impedance unfortunately generates more distortion:

View attachment 139571

So better than a checklist item but best to use a proper headphone amplifier.

Conclusions
The MOTU UltraLite-mk5 seems to be a well engineered interface with a couple of glaring problems. Worst issue is the very high distortion at mid to lower frequencies at 192 kHz sampling. This shouldn't be there at all. The second is less severe and it is the IMD distortion rising at mid levels which is long behind us in desktop DACs as companies figured out how to deal with that.

Given the 192 kHz sampling problem, I can't recommend the MOTU UltraLite-mk5. If this is something that can be fixed with a firmware update, and I have access to verify the same, I will upgrade this rating to recommended.

With the bug with 192 kHz sampling resolved, I am going to give a recommendation to MOTU UltraLite-mk5.

Note as always that my assessment of interfaces is on their engineering and measurements. You need to judge their functionality.

-----------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/
How would you say this stacks up against the Universal Audio Apollo Twin X Duo (or Quad)?
 
Last edited:

Trell

Major Contributor
Joined
May 13, 2021
Messages
2,752
Likes
3,285
It may be a pilot error but I was unhappy to plug the thing in and not have Windows recognize it. Fortunately their download package and control app is pretty small. Once there, Windows recognized it as well as having the usual ASIO interface that I used for my testing. Upon starting its control app, it offered to update itself which I let it. Was nice to see online update this way.

I just ordered the UltraLite-mk5 assuming that the device would be an USB Class Compliant audio device, but reading the manual carefully it seems that is not the case even though it does not say so outright but inferred from reading the Mac part of the manual. I do have the MOTU M2 and tried plugging it in on a Windows 10 PC without the proprietary MOTU ASIO driver and sadly the device is not usable as its not detected as an audio interface.

I'll keep the MOTU M2 as it's a very nice interface that I've used for some time, but the UltraLite-mk5 has not yet arrived and I'm really uncertain if I'm going to return it. That a proprietary driver is needed to use all the features I can understand, but that is a far cry from no use at all (i.e. an expensive door stop in worst case). My RME ADI-2 DAC FS works fine without proprietary drivers except for a couple of features like using the DigiCheck app.

I've opened a ticket with MOTU for the M2 with comment about UltraLite-m5 as well.

Edit: MOTU reply about class compliance for Windows as well as Linux was FUD and they won't (as I could interpret the reply) implement it. This speaks badly of MOTU and I'll be returning the UltraLite-mk5 when I receive it. Reduced functionality is one thing, but none at all is not acceptable if they are unable to update their drivers.
 
Last edited:

phoenixsong

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Nov 17, 2018
Messages
874
Likes
685
I just ordered the UltraLite-mk5 assuming that the device would be an USB Class Compliant audio device, but reading the manual carefully it seems that is not the case even though it does not say so outright but inferred from reading the Mac part of the manual. I do have the MOTU M2 and tried plugging it in on a Windows 10 PC without the proprietary MOTU ASIO driver and sadly the device is not usable as its not detected as an audio interface.

I'll keep the MOTU M2 as it's a very nice interface that I've used for some time, but the UltraLite-mk5 has not yet arrived and I'm really uncertain if I'm going to return it. That a proprietary driver is needed to use all the features I can understand, but that is a far cry from no use at all (i.e. an expensive door stop in worst case). My RME ADI-2 DAC FS works fine without proprietary drivers except for a couple of features like using the DigiCheck app.

I've opened a ticket with MOTU for the M2 with comment about UltraLite-m5 as well.

Edit: MOTU reply about class compliance for Windows as well as Linux was FUD and they won't (as I could interpret the reply) implement it. This speaks badly of MOTU and I'll be returning the UltraLite-mk5 when I receive it. Reduced functionality is one thing, but none at all is not acceptable if they are unable to update their drivers.
This is strange, my M2 has been working perfectly off my Windows 10 Pro laptop with zero issue
 

mdsimon2

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Messages
2,478
Likes
3,316
Location
Detroit, MI
I just ordered the UltraLite-mk5 assuming that the device would be an USB Class Compliant audio device, but reading the manual carefully it seems that is not the case even though it does not say so outright but inferred from reading the Mac part of the manual. I do have the MOTU M2 and tried plugging it in on a Windows 10 PC without the proprietary MOTU ASIO driver and sadly the device is not usable as its not detected as an audio interface.

I'll keep the MOTU M2 as it's a very nice interface that I've used for some time, but the UltraLite-mk5 has not yet arrived and I'm really uncertain if I'm going to return it. That a proprietary driver is needed to use all the features I can understand, but that is a far cry from no use at all (i.e. an expensive door stop in worst case). My RME ADI-2 DAC FS works fine without proprietary drivers except for a couple of features like using the DigiCheck app.

I've opened a ticket with MOTU for the M2 with comment about UltraLite-m5 as well.

Edit: MOTU reply about class compliance for Windows as well as Linux was FUD and they won't (as I could interpret the reply) implement it. This speaks badly of MOTU and I'll be returning the UltraLite-mk5 when I receive it. Reduced functionality is one thing, but none at all is not acceptable if they are unable to update their drivers.

It works fine on Linux with no additional driver, not sure what you are talking about.

Michael
 
Top Bottom