MOTU UltraLite-mk5 Review (Audio Interface)

[Nspace]

Good news. Someone from Motu contacted me and said they found the issue with 192 kHz sampling. Apparently the EQ pipeline is on by default even if you don't change the settings for it. The filter coefficients for this EQ filter was causing an overflow at 192 kHz sampling with full amplitude signal that I use (0 dBFS). They gave me instructions to turn off the EQ and it indeed fixed both the 1 kHz problem and linearity. (...)

It is nice to see the company following up like this!

And:

I believe they are going to fix this in firmware so it just works.

About the coming firmware and future Cuemix5 software updates, there is a conversation at GS forum, where an user contacted MOTU support and they directed him to Technical Support (TS), where it was suggested this is the time for actual Mk5 owners to directly write them back stating their actual issues/needs.

In his words:
"If you own an ultralite and want to see specific updates, I was directed by Customer Service to submit a ticket with Technical Support (only available if you're a product owner). Apparently they aren't doing anything with the suggestions sent to CS, it has to be through a ticket to TS. Strange, but whatever -- FYI.

I submitted a ticket for the aforementioned features I want back. TS responded very quickly and said it was a good idea to submit those now (as it seems they are in the process of working on the software).

That's all I got. Now if they do offer these features or anything new, I don't know. Nor do I know a time frame. But I figured it was worth sharing." (narfs).


These are the features and functionalities that had been registered as being reduced/limited at MOTU Ultralite Mk5 as compared with Ultralite Mk4 and Mk3:

• The Ultralite 3 got the old Cuemix which had 7 band EQ, a Compressor with 2 modes and a Trim, and a Leveler.
• The Ultralite 4 got the Pro Software suite just as the 828es with the full routing and the robust effects.
• The Ultralite 5 got a brand new Cuemix5 which has 4 band EQ and a cut down Compressor.

Plus;

1. EQ, 4 bands on channel, 3 on master out. (used to be 7 bands on every channel and the master out).

2. EQ, Low and High cut filters have NO means of adjusting the steepness of the filter. It looks like it is a fixed 12db to me. (used to be 6, 12, 18, 24, 30, and 36 db adjustable)

3. Compressor, No Trim (used to be there on old Cuemix)

4. Compressor, No Knee (used to be there on old Cuemix)

5. Compressor, Not available on the master out at all (was available on old Cuemix and I used it daily). "
https://gearspace.com/board/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=15542410

///However, most of the missing features listed here have to be implemented at Cuemix5 software.
There is though, one feature that will need to be done at the firmware level and could be requested by us users:

The addition of a reduced power draw mode, so to allow for Ultralite mk5 bus powering for crucial mobile duties, (iex. only 2 front(+2back) inputs active and no ADAT expansion).
Very much to achieve what M4 does already, therefore UltraliteMk5 will work allowing only for basic features without the need of the external power supply.

 

[DWPress]

Excellent write up @Nspace. Having played with the MK4 and AVB with the past software I note all your listed differences and am surprised they've moved so many features over to software rather than onboard processing, seems like steps backward considering the faster and more capable processor. Not really features the home audio enthusiast needs so much but for a musician/band using it in studio/stage settings these things are pretty useful.

 

[Nspace]

Thank you DWPress. It is narfs user (from GS forum) who contacted MOTU Technical Support (TS) asking for lost features, and it was also him who made the comprehensive list comparing Ultralite versions Mk3, Mk4 and Mk5 and detailing what has been lost with the last version change.
Then added a very useful function that M4 has and Mk5, being also a mobile and higher grade model, could have (bus power mode).

If anything, I second the importance of taking action now, and thus, pasted above the message sent by TS to narfs, in short; "I was directed by Customer Service to submit a ticket for the aforementioned features I want back. TS responded very quickly and said it was a good idea to submit those now (as it seems they are in the process of working on the software)."

///Hopefully owners who read this, get into your MOTU accounts and create a ticket at the Technical Support section, including the features you want to be reinstated at Ultralite Mk5 or the issues you may have (if any).
It was actually Technical Support who stated that it is now the appropriate time to do so.

 

[Mountain Goat]

On it.

Edit: Done.

 

[andrewjohn007]

I just submitted a TechLink addressing the missing features as well as those additional ones requested. Thank you all for keeping us in the loop so we can effectuate meaningful progress!

 

[Nspace]

Aha! In the past few days I had been baffled by the slightly brighten-up sound from my Motu UltraLite mk5. To my ears it just sounded crispier than my Motu M2. Now seeing the measurements, maybe I wasn't imagining things after all. Gonna play with the sample rate and see if that is the cause.

Good to see that you support this feedback communication to Technical Support, Χ Ξ Σ.

At the case you highlight in your quoted post, the "slightly brighten-up sound", in case it corresponds to what Amirm calls ESS DAC IMD Hump:

Disappointing to the see the "ESS DAC chip IMD Hump" that we discovered some three years ago still manifesting itself in new products:

View attachment 139539

What a lousy company ESS is by not teaching all of its licensees how to solve this problem.

It would be great to know if this three years already found problem can be amended by a firmware replacement, or if it will need a hardware redesign/ chip reprogramming...
Hopefully it is the former, so it could be usefully added to the list of features, functionalities and issues included at the ticket to be submitted to MOTU's Technical Support.

 

[Χ Ξ Σ]

Good to see that you support this feedback communication to Technical Support, Χ Ξ Σ.

At the case you highlight in your quoted post, the "slightly brighten-up sound", in case it corresponds to what Amirm calls ESS DAC IMD Hump:

It would be great to know if this three years already found problem can be amended by a firmware replacement, or if it will need a hardware redesign/ chip reprogramming...
Hopefully it is the former, so it could be usefully added to the list of features, functionalities and issues included at the ticket to be submitted to MOTU's Technical Support.

Thanks for including me in this. I just submitted a ticket. Hope all these leads to good things!

 

[Music1969]

Not so good is the 2 volt output

Sorry if someone else asked this but Motu product page says 14dBu headphone output, which should be approx 3.8 Vrms ?

 

[Mountain Goat]

I didn't mention any of the sound issues. Since they contacted Amir on their own, they saw the test. Probably should have.

I put in a feature request for the MKIV pro software bundle and bus power mode.

 

[amirm]

It would be great to know if this three years already found problem can be amended by a firmware replacement, or if it will need a hardware redesign/ chip reprogramming...

It requires a trivial hardware change. Firmware fix is not possible.

 

[somebodyelse]

It requires a trivial hardware change. Firmware fix is not possible.

That was @Ben1987's approach. @IVX showed a register change that could do it so long as other hardware conditions were met, so a firmware fix might be possible.

 

[JohnYang1997]

That was @Ben1987's approach. @IVX showed a register change that could do it so long as other hardware conditions were met, so a firmware fix might be possible.

This is not a fix. Noise goes up with it. There are many components involved. Oscillator brand, clock frequency, clock divider, placement of the oscillator, noise of voltage reference, output impedance of voltage reference, placement of the voltage reference, i/v opamp, rc in i/v. All have an effect.

 

[John57]

This reminds me of the Soncoz SGD1 that had the ESS DAC IMD Hump that was fixed, but other measurements suffered. I am not concerned about this issue because I still get professional results in creating music. I wanted the DAC part to as clear, detailed and sharp for mixing decisions.

 

[Evgeniy]

Thanks for this review.

problem in 192 khz mode present in 88 / 96 khz modes ?
"Good news. Someone from Motu contacted me and said they found the issue with 192 kHz sampling. Apparently the EQ pipeline is on by default even if you don't change the settings for it. The filter coefficients for this EQ filter was causing an overflow at 192 kHz sampling with full amplitude signal that I use (0 dBFS). They gave me instructions to turn off the EQ and it indeed fixed both the 1 kHz problem and linearity "

nice.

Can you measure thd & imd on Mic inputs with mid/hi gain ?

 

[Mountain Goat]

Sorry, this unit is on my desk, where it belongs. No more measurements. Mic inputs are great.

 

[Helicopter]

Are the optical inputs proper TosLink HiFi, or are they pro ADAT?

...wondering if they are compatible with a Parks Puffin optical output, which would be of the TosLink HiFi variety.

For anyone who doesn't know, the connectors and cables are the same, but the signal and processing are different.

 

[zhora]

Sorry, this unit is on my desk, where it belongs. No more measurements. Mic inputs are great.

Thanks for sending the unit to Amir!

 

[John57]

Are the optical inputs proper TosLink HiFi, or are they pro ADAT?

...wondering if they are compatible with a Parks Puffin optical output, which would be of the TosLink HiFi variety.

For anyone who doesn't know, the connectors and cables are the same, but the signal and processing are different.

The Motu UltraLite mk5 optical input and output can be swiched to TosLink or ADAT

 

[Helicopter]

The Motu UltraLite mk5 optical input and output can be sawiched to TosLink or ADAT

That is awesome! Maybe this will replace my Focusrite Scarlett 2i2. I was looking at 8i6, but that has no optical inputs, and RME optical inputs look like ADAT. I really only need SPDIF now for the 'wandering Puffin,' but I would like forward compatability with TosLink in case I end up with an optical Puffin at some point. This would also make the UltraLite a great choice for ripping digital from CDs, DVDs, etc.

 

[John57]