MOTU UltraLite-mk5 Review (Audio Interface)

[dasdoing]

Boring means it doesn’t enhance the sound, it is meant to be clean on this interface. While on Audient recording has an added color

imo this thinking is outdated. Hardware coloration gives you that "industrial sound", yes.....but it also restricts you to it. Plus, it will work on A, then sound bad on B, and it never gets you X

 

[Grooved]

More than the "thinking", I think that it's the naming that can be consider outdated. Boring can mean anything without all the context.
Here, the right word is simply transparent. And then, transparent can be "perfect" for a project, and can also be "not perfect" for another one, which is what certainly happened to @tamtam

 

[dasdoing]

"Boring" is relative. The sweets industry made fruits taste boring for the youth. Now my daughter has learned the taste of fruits first, and doesn't like sweets.

 

[DrSpan]

OK, sure, we can play this game of "well it is proabbly just about as good and I don't hear a difference". Case in point, I use a Behringer UMC1820 in my home to run what I would call more casual loudspeaker systems for my family and not the ones where I am trying for high SQ. Do I hear some differences? No, because in that application the speaker are not set up in a critical way and the UMC1820 is just fine in its role. But the UMC1820 measures much worse, MUCH worse in fact. But it is still much better in terms of distortion compared to my loudspeaker systems, so you do not really notice anything. You can play this game ad nauseam, but most people on this forum care greatly about the performance and SQ of their equipment, and so paying attention to measured performance is also important to them and drives their buying choices.

Accidentally saw your comment just now as i am not that much hanging around here anymore.

I don`t know how the Behringer measures as i am not touching this brand with a ten foot pole.
That said, i thought it is self explanatory but will clarify it a bit as of course i was wrong to assume one can guess what i think so apologies on that.

Of course i mean any decent interface. Not the cheapest possible.

Like an Audiend ID series. Or a Motu Ultralite and so on and so on. In short, relatively affordable but neither Cheapos nor High End cost level.

"but most people on this forum care greatly about the performance and SQ of their equipment“ -
I am not one of the pioneers regarding experience as there are others much longer than me in this. However what i have come to realise in the last 30 years observing others and of course my self, is that wanting-caring about quality
is one thing while actually being able to hear a difference is another.
i have witnessed people, me included, fail miserably when the conditions where more in the direction of a blind test or when chains got re-structured accidentally-without my knowledge.
Also just because one device measures „worse“ than another it does not automatically make it bad sounding. You need to be able to precisely define exactly what it is in the sound that is so bad or else for me its „voodoo“ worth of analysis.
It is this where many many (many) people will fail. We are biased beeings and the entry and medium level equipment has gotten vastly better in the last 30-40 years.
I doubt that 99% of listeners are able to hear a difference in a D/A converter for example. I enjoy the channel on YT by Julian Krause cause he does
no nonsense measurements and without the whole drama. Now that i am writing this however i realise that i have lost my passion to prove anything on the matter.
Partly because one thing i dearly miss in these discussions is a bit of humour. Audiophiles are taking their selves way to seriously

Anyhow. Thats it in a nutshell. Need to cook now.
Cheers and God speed

 

[JunkyTalent]

FYI, I have found that when using the TOSLINK / SPDIF inputs there is a 1 sample delay between even (2, 4, 6, 8, 10) and odd (1, 3, 5, 7, 9) output channels. This is not an issue when using USB. Not a big deal but if you are using these for active speakers you definitely want to setup your channel routing such that even channels go to one side (left) and odd channels go to other side (right).

Michael

Thinking about using it as a DSP converter and saw this message.

Just out of curiosity: how did you measure this out? Would 1 sample difference under reasonable sample rate (like 48kHz) be completely irrelevant for analog out?

 

[JunkyTalent]

Thinking about using it as a DSP converter and saw this message.

Just out of curiosity: how did you measure this out? Would 1 sample difference under reasonable sample rate (like 48kHz) be completely irrelevant for analog out?

FYI, I have found that when using the TOSLINK / SPDIF inputs there is a 1 sample delay between even (2, 4, 6, 8, 10) and odd (1, 3, 5, 7, 9) output channels. This is not an issue when using USB. Not a big deal but if you are using these for active speakers you definitely want to setup your channel routing such that even channels go to one side (left) and odd channels go to other side (right).

Michael

Nvm, realized at high frequencies this causes clearly much phase difference

 

[mdsimon2]

To measure I use an ADC and compare two channels in REW, using one as the measurement channel and one as a timing reference. As you mentioned you can use a frequency sweep and look at the phase response, you can also use the scope functionality and see the offset (more obvious at higher frequencies).

This isn’t the UL Mk5, but I posted some examples of these measurements with another device here -> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/okto-8-owner’s-thread.13899/post-684285

Michael

 

[carat]

Is there any tweak to get cuemix on ios to more reliably see an ultralite-mk5 that's connected directly to the ios device via USB? For me, it can't find the device half the time. Ironically, it's actually more reliable connecting indirectly over wifi when the ultralite is attached to a PC.

Also, is there a way to temporarily disable the virtual ethernet device. It sometimes causes problems with other apps on ios, which prioritize this fake connection over a real wifi connection.

 

[john61ct]

CueMix 5 iOS app does not even look at USB locally, it must connect over WiFi both devices on the same SSID obv.

Syntax is computer's network name followed by the port (e.g., [ComputerName]:1281)

Are you running the latest firmware?

You can use the front display, at least verify its networking settings there.

 

[mimicat963]

Based purely on my personal experience and my friend's usage of MOTU products—from older models like the 192HD, 828 x, and 896mk3 Hybrid to the more recent UltraLite AVB—the older MOTU gear had a much thicker tone with a distinct sonic coloration profile.

Starting from the AVB series with the switch to the ESS9016S DAC, that deep, rich tone became less pronounced. However, it still retained a slight signature coloration compared to other brands, which gave it a pleasing sound. With the mk5, this coloration has been reduced even further.

As for your question about how it compares to RME, which one is better? RME's sound is overly neutral and clinical, with practically zero coloration or tonal shape added—though many people actually prefer this kind of sound. Personally, I still recommend the MOTU sound; at least it offers a pleasing tonal character that makes listening far more enjoyable.

 

[john61ct]

The community here advocates for zero coloration baked into equipment.

If the user enjoys a particular "color" (= distortion) that's what tone controls / PEQ / DSP filtering is for.

So that you can then return to baseline transparency in future, which is not possible with gear where coloration is baked in.

All that said I am not in any way claiming what you are saying about MOTU gear is true, outside of your own personal perception.

 

[mimicat963]

The community here advocates for zero coloration baked into equipment.

If the user enjoys a particular "color" (= distortion) that's what tone controls / PEQ / DSP filtering is for.

So that you can then return to baseline transparency in future, which is not possible with gear where coloration is baked in.

All that said I am not in any way claiming what you are saying about MOTU gear is true, outside of your own personal perception.

Whether you like sound coloration or not is your personal preference and has nothing to do with me. Some DACs naturally have their own coloration. If you don't like it, you should take it up with the manufacturer, not me.

The key point here is: if you're hungry and need food, you should go find some yourself—not explain to me what you want for dinner as if I'm here to cater to your preferences.

 

[antcollinet]

Whether you like sound coloration or not is your personal preference and has nothing to do with me. Some DACs naturally have their own coloration. If you don't like it, you should take it up with the manufacturer, not me.

The key point here is: if you're hungry and need food, you should go find some yourself—not explain to me what you want for dinner as if I'm here to cater to your preferences.

Nice way to introduce yourself to the forum.

 

[john61ct]

Whether you like sound coloration or not is your personal preference and has nothing to do with me

To put it more plainly, the content of your post is considered pernicious nonsense, harmful to what this site is all about.

You really should move on to a community that is more receptive to that sort of stuff, or at least keep it to yourself while visiting here.

 

[mimicat963]

To put it more plainly, the content of your post is considered pernicious nonsense, harmful to what this site is all about.

You really should move on to a community that is more receptive to that sort of stuff, or at least keep it to yourself while visiting here.

If you like uncolored sound, go set up your own shop and start your own religion. Please don't preach your doctrines to me—it has nothing to do with me. And don't force others to have dinner with you or eat the food you think you should eat.

I can confidently tell you this: if you don’t like what I say, feel free to ask the moderator to ban my IP and delete my account. But that will only prove that your logic is pure communism.

I actually look forward to you doing that and reporting me to the admins. It will only validate exactly what you are

 

[stigger]

If you like uncolored sound, go set up your own shop and start your own religion.

"Sound coloration" is a measurable deficiency of a component, whether it is an audio source, a DAC or an amplifier. Enough with all the drama.

 

[carat]

CueMix 5 iOS app does not even look at USB locally, it must connect over WiFi both devices on the same SSID obv.

Syntax is computer's network name followed by the port (e.g., [ComputerName]:1281)

Are you running the latest firmware?

You can use the front display, at least verify its networking settings there.

Yes to latest firmware.

In the problematic iPhone case it's not using WiFi. The WiFi system is working reliably via another PC but I'm not talking about that. When the iOS device is connected directly to the UL it's using a virtual ethernet connection over that USB. If anything, you'd think this would be more relable than the indirect WiFi method but it's not. The app can't detect the device half the time, and then randomly starts detecting it later even though no settings have been changed.

 

[sm5]

As a head's up:
The preamp inputs on these MOTU MK5 and 828/848/10Pre interfaces have a 0dBu max input without the pad on which can be an issue with certain microphones. (PGA2500) *I'm guessing the Apollo preamps with PGA2500 mics and 20dB pads will have similar issues.

Please check your microphones sensitivity and maximum SPL https://www.ranecommercial.com/legacy/note148.html to make sure you're not going to accidentally overload this interface.

A Earthworks QTC microphone which is 34mV/Pa will overload this preamp at only around 121 dB ... which if you're simply singing loudly and have the mic really close: you can definitely go over that level! Note that the level bars (shown below) WON'T register a peak or show it at 0 ... so you won't know your audio is distorted until after you're listening back which is the main issue. For hotter mics, I do suggest using the pad and testing out pad vs no pad to make sure things aren't distorting. If you want to be safe: it might be worth just putting the pad on if you have a more sensitive mic. Otherwise using an external mic pre into the MOTU interfaces will have plenty of headroom - it's just the mic pre's on them don't.

Note that on the lower-end M2 models, RME UCX II, UFX II, UFX III, Topping M62: they all have padless preamps: so without a pad they can usually handle 8dBu-10dBu on the lower end models and 18dBu (Most likely THAT 1580) on the more expensive ones. (I've owned all and no issues besides with MOTU MK5 and higher PGA2500 models for distortion without any sort of indication of a too hot level)

Earthworks TC20's are less sensitive at 8mV/Pa (-42dBV/Pa): Doesn't seem to cause the same issue ... most likely as they won't hit the maximum mic level of the MOTU's at 0dBu until 134 SPL which is quite loud.
DPA 2011A or 4011A at 10 mV/Pa are also less sensitive so they shouldn't have too many problems.

The main issue here is your meters may not show anything too hot on the MOTU interface and Pro Tools: but it will definitely be audibly distorted. Sometimes it's just enough where you won't specifically notice until you compare with a external preamp or having the pad on and you'll realize it actually is quite distorted. I would personally suggest external preamps with more headroom or interfaces with padless preamps if possible if you don't want to worry about if you have a hotter mic like the Earthworks QTC mics as I've never had any issues with the padless preamps I've owned (RME or M62/etc)

 

[Nspace]

I should note that the mic preamps in these MK5's (...)when using something like a Earthworks QTC microphones without the pad on .

You mean you are using phantom powered condenser microphones without switching on the phantom power (+48 V) itself? Is that doable under some conditions? Or am I missing something here?