Motu M4 Audio Interface Review

[tiramisu]

A thread about the Motu M4 comparing the RME ADI-2 and UCX II is a bit obscene. literally 10x the price.
About the only ones not in nosebleed territory right now are the MOTU Ultralite Mk5 or the ID44 ii.
Neither hit all the checkboxes.

The manufacturers don't seem to be willing to make a small audio interface that has enough power, inserts, all the connectors( balanced, single, midi, toslink... ), world clock ,and routing programmability. Topping needs to start making audio interfaces. I don't need to mic a drum kit. I don't need 24 ins and 48 outs. But I do need an audio interface that lets me integrate small high-fidelity home recordings at a price that doesn't require a corporate budget or a business case.

 

[spnc]

A thread about the Motu M4 comparing the RME ADI-2 and UCX II is a bit obscene. literally 10x the price.
About the only ones not in nosebleed territory right now are the MOTU Ultralite Mk5 or the ID44 ii.
Neither hit all the checkboxes.

The manufacturers don't seem to be willing to make a small audio interface that has enough power, inserts, all the connectors( balanced, single, midi, toslink... ), world clock ,and routing programmability. Topping needs to start making audio interfaces. I don't need to mic a drum kit. I don't need 24 ins and 48 outs. But I do need an audio interface that lets me integrate small high-fidelity home recordings at a price that doesn't require a corporate budget or a business case.

Just a small edit: 4 times the price ^_^

I’m ready to pay the premium I think it’s a good mid-term investment, rather than having to worry about these minors.

But yeah I feel you on this.

 

[MCH]

How would that work out? Sry I’m really not a genius with cables and all that ^_^

I have not read your posts thoroughly, but if what you want is to bring a stereo signal to two different amps simultaneously, it might be enough to use a Y "splitter" cable. But let others more knowledgeable than me comment, just in case.
Not long ago in a different thread someone wanted to do something similar and this is what @solderdude said about splitting the (unbalanced in this case) signal:

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...with-always-on-passthrough.34358/post-1208467

Hope it helps,

 

[tiramisu]

Just a small edit: 4 times the price ^_^

I’m ready to pay the premium I think it’s a good mid-term investment, rather than having to worry about these minors.

But yeah I feel you on this.

RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition AD/DA Converter (Open Box) [ADI2PROFSRBE(OB)] : AVShop.ca - Canada's Pro Audio, Video and DJ Store

RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition AD/DA Converter (Open Box) [ADI2PROFSRBE(OB)] - Format Converters: RME’s reference AD/DA converter is a host of devices all put together into one unit, with a simple and mostly automated way of using it right out of the box. A unit with the industry’s biggest...

www.avshop.ca

$2603CAD

MOTU M4 4x4 USB Audio Interface [M4] : AVShop.ca - Canada's Pro Audio, Video and DJ Store

MOTU M4 4x4 USB Audio Interface [M4] - Audio Interfaces: Equipped with the same ESS Sabre32 Ultra™ DAC Technology found in audio interfaces costing thousands, the MOTU M4 delivers an astonishing 120 dB Dynamic Range on its main outputs. ESS converters also drive the headphone output, which...

www.avshop.ca

$349Cad

7.45x forgive me for rounding up.

 

[spnc]

Okay my bad here where I live in Europe the difference is less.

 

[Trell]

Yes absolutely, but I will use an amp in any setup, it’s always better for maximum headroom and overall dynamics like you mentioned before. I’m saving up to get both UCX II and ADI-2 (or the new ADI-2/4 if they improve it).

The UCX II has all the headroom and dynamics I need for my headphones, and then some, but I use the ADI-2 DAC here for it's great Dynamic Loudness feature. This depends on your headphones as well as how loud you listen, of course. Do note that the UCX II has a 3 band PEQ that can fix the worst in many headphones.

So let’s say I wanna do like your setup using an amp, does TotalMix allow to route in such way that I would not need to select 3/4 or 1/2 only in Ableton master? Does it create an internal sort of aggregate device inside of the UCX, so that I no longer need to worry about having two separate outputs?

For any output on the RME audio interface you can select which input(s) are going to which output(s). This is what RME calls a submix and there are a lot of things you can do with respect to levels, PEQ etc. All of this is internal on the RME device and the TotalMix software acts like an interface to hardware capabilities.

All of mixes/channels you can expose to other software as needed, transparently.

My use case is very simple as I use it mostly for video conferencing: 1) My ADI-2 DAC is connected with ADAT and I hear myself in real time when I talk and 2) my voice is delayed to avoid lip synch issues with my camera. This works great for me, though delay adjustment steps are 10 ms.

 

[Trell]

Okay my bad here where I live in Europe the difference is less.

Yup, "only" 5 times more expensive for me but I did get a bunch of features I needed/wanted.

 

[Trell]

A thread about the Motu M4 comparing the RME ADI-2 and UCX II is a bit obscene. literally 10x the price.
About the only ones not in nosebleed territory right now are the MOTU Ultralite Mk5 or the ID44 ii.
Neither hit all the checkboxes.

The manufacturers don't seem to be willing to make a small audio interface that has enough power, inserts, all the connectors( balanced, single, midi, toslink... ), world clock ,and routing programmability. Topping needs to start making audio interfaces. I don't need to mic a drum kit. I don't need 24 ins and 48 outs. But I do need an audio interface that lets me integrate small high-fidelity home recordings at a price that doesn't require a corporate budget or a business case.

Not really, and the sequence of posts was started with someone already using the MOTU M4 and noting features he wished it had.

The MOTU M4 is a great audio interface at a great price (I own the M2, btw) but it does lack features others might want (I do). In the end it's a comprise the end user has to pay for.

 

[tiramisu]

I keep looking for a device that isn't the price of a used civic that will meet my needs as an audio interface and it doesn't appear to exist.
It is either absolute overkill with the associated boutique prices or it is half-assed in one way or another.

The ID44 and the Motu Ultralite are the only 2 I have seen that come close to being reasonably capable home studio devices targeted at people without a corporate budget.
It seems to me like I am just not using my google skills effectively and there should be more but I can't find them.

 

[Trell]

I keep looking for a device that isn't the price of a used civic that will meet my needs as an audio interface and it doesn't appear to exist.
It is either absolute overkill with the associated boutique prices or it is half-assed in one way or another.

The ID44 and the Motu Ultralite are the only 2 I have seen that come close to being reasonably capable home studio devices targeted at people without a corporate budget.
It seems to me like I am just not using my google skills effectively and there should be more but I can't find them.

Your examples of devices are more expensive than the M4, and a powerful audio interface like the RME UCX II is about 40-50% more expensive than your MOTU Ultralite example of an “affordable” audio interface. As for features the UCX II is the better deal for me.

 

[spnc]

I keep looking for a device that isn't the price of a used civic that will meet my needs as an audio interface and it doesn't appear to exist.
It is either absolute overkill with the associated boutique prices or it is half-assed in one way or another.

The ID44 and the Motu Ultralite are the only 2 I have seen that come close to being reasonably capable home studio devices targeted at people without a corporate budget.
It seems to me like I am just not using my google skills effectively and there should be more but I can't find them.

Funnily I spent some time today comparing the Ultralite 5 (which also occurred to me was the only serious contender, the ID44 might also be there indeed) with the UCX II and although the difference in price might seem important between the two, the RME wins in every department by a fraction which overall makes it a better built, sounding and stable product for the long run. The Ultraltite only has more outputs (which I don't really care about), but anything else is superior in the RME. Therefore, I believe it's worth spending that extra bucks and be safe and fully happy with it for the next 5/6 years.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I keep looking for a device that isn't the price of a used civic that will meet my needs as an audio interface and it doesn't appear to exist.
It is either absolute overkill with the associated boutique prices or it is half-assed in one way or another.

The ID44 and the Motu Ultralite are the only 2 I have seen that come close to being reasonably capable home studio devices targeted at people without a corporate budget.
It seems to me like I am just not using my google skills effectively and there should be more but I can't find them.

What are all of the things you need? Something like a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 has almost everything. It doesn't have DSP built in, is that a requirement? Is it the quality of some of these others? No, it is about 10 db worse in most parameters. However, you would only very rarely (quite possibly never) find that a meaningful difference. We sometimes lose track of how good even low end interfaces are these days. The abilities of something like the 18i20 would have been something unattainable when much of the best music was recorded. Just a suggestion to think about.

 

[spnc]

What are all of the things you need? Something like a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 has almost everything. It doesn't have DSP built in, is that a requirement? Is it the quality of some of these others? No, it is about 10 db worse in most parameters. However, you would only very rarely (quite possibly never) find that a meaningful difference. We sometimes lose track of how good even low end interfaces are these days. The abilities of something like the 18i20 would have been something unattainable when much of the best music was recorded. Just a suggestion to think about.

These minor differences is precisely what sorts the wheat from the chaff. You can clearly hear them, more airy, more present, more pristine sounds is a big difference eventually. Let alone the extra features.

 

[Blumlein 88]

These minor differences is precisely what sorts the wheat from the chaff. You can clearly hear them, more airy, more present, more pristine sounds is a big difference eventually. Let alone the extra features.

Can you hear SINAD of 115 db vs "only" 105 db?
Can you hear THD of -125 db vs something as high as -110db?

By the time you apply gain to microphone inputs you aren't going to have anywhere close to 100 db of range to work with.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I keep looking for a device that isn't the price of a used civic that will meet my needs as an audio interface and it doesn't appear to exist.
It is either absolute overkill with the associated boutique prices or it is half-assed in one way or another.

The ID44 and the Motu Ultralite are the only 2 I have seen that come close to being reasonably capable home studio devices targeted at people without a corporate budget.
It seems to me like I am just not using my google skills effectively and there should be more but I can't find them.

@tiramisu Do the features of this Clarett from Focusrite suit your needs? Claretts are a good step up from the Scarlett interfaces in performance. Julian Krause has tested the pre2 with pretty good results.

Focusrite Clarett+ 4Pre USB-C Audio Interface

18-in/8-out USB-C Audio Interface with 4 Mic Preamps and Focusrite "Air" Effect, 24-bit/192kHz Conversion, 2 Headphone Outputs, and Included Software Bundle - Mac/PC

www.sweetwater.com

The Arturia AudioFuse looks pretty good that you've started a thread on. Just can't find independent measurements. I do note the phone output impedance is 33 ohms which will hurt with low impedance power hungry phones. Finding a strong headphone amp in these interfaces is the hardest thing. If you are going to use it in your home I'd probably go with a lesser interface if it is otherwise good and spend $150 or so on an analog headphone amp which has ample power. The Audiofuse is a very pretty design to my eyes.

 

[tiramisu]

So the things I need in an audio interface....

1. A 15-volt power supply.... Goddamn underpowered headphone amps and microphone preamps are garbage. (this takes out all the USB Bus-Powered Bullshit and quite a few that are reusing the low voltage circuits)
- I just added a Topping L50 Headphone amp to solve a problem I shouldn't have to add.
- I don't want to add a god damn cloud lifter on the mic to solve another problem I shouldn't have.

2. Inserts. I use hardware in my audio chain, I have EQs and a Channel strip (I have a small rack)
- I don't know what vendors have against inserts once you have them you will never want to give them up.

3. 2 Headphone Jacks. single-ended / balanced (I'm not always alone)
4. 2 Microphone Jacks xlr -
5. Pad and High Pass filter for the mics. ( I don't need an onboard DSP. It's an interface, let me interface with my DSP).
6. Balance and Single Ended Outs (2) for monitors
7. World clock
8. Midi In/Out
9. Toslink of some flavor.
10. Routing - give me the ability to configure where my signal goes

11. No audible noise and clean mic preamps (none of this color or flavor bullshit).


I'm not too concerned about the aesthetics. Putting lipstick on a pig does nothing for me.

 

[spnc]

I have not read your posts thoroughly, but if what you want is to bring a stereo signal to two different amps simultaneously, it might be enough to use a Y "splitter" cable. But let others more knowledgeable than me comment, just in case.
Not long ago in a different thread someone wanted to do something similar and this is what @solderdude said about splitting the (unbalanced in this case) signal:

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...with-always-on-passthrough.34358/post-1208467

Hope it helps,

Thank you, I will try that. Makes sense. I'm just hoping there won't be some crazy artefacts or explosions coming out of the speakers while experimenting this lol I'll go slow

Otherwise it's funny someone asked the same question on Motunation last month: https://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=70929

They advised to use a mixer, he bought a Mackie HM-4, but so far isn't succeeding. Might be worth trying as well since it's only 40 bucks?

If not I won't waste more time on this and move on, no worries.

 

[spnc]

So the things I need in an audio interface....

1. A 15-volt power supply.... Goddamn underpowered headphone amps and microphone preamps are garbage. (this takes out all the USB Bus-Powered Bullshit and quite a few that are reusing the low voltage circuits)
- I just added a Topping L50 Headphone amp to solve a problem I shouldn't have to add.
- I don't want to add a god damn cloud lifter on the mic to solve another problem I shouldn't have.

2. Inserts. I use hardware in my audio chain, I have EQs and a Channel strip (I have a small rack)
- I don't know what vendors have against inserts once you have them you will never want to give them up.

3. 2 Headphone Jacks. single-ended / balanced (I'm not always alone)
4. 2 Microphone Jacks xlr -
5. Pad and High Pass filter for the mics. ( I don't need an onboard DSP. It's an interface, let me interface with my DSP).
6. Balance and Single Ended Outs (2) for monitors
7. World clock
8. Midi In/Out
9. Toslink of some flavor.
10. Routing - give me the ability to configure where my signal goes

11. No audible noise and clean mic preamps (none of this color or flavor bullshit).


I'm not too concerned about the aesthetics. Putting lipstick on a pig does nothing for me.

Thank for the checklist - sounds pretty neat.

Here's a another rant from Motunation - guy is a bit confused but it's funny xD

M4 issues - MOTUnation.com

I hooked up outputs 3 and 4 and HOLY MOLY,....THERE was all that glorious power and sound I had been missing! .....BUT...and this is simply an incredible caveat imo....outputs 3 and 4 ARE NOT CONTROLLABLE AT ALL VIA THE HARDWARE MOTU BOX!!!....how on EARTH did the MOTU engineers decide that was ever a useable scenario?!...As it is, the output from 3 and 4 is 100% volume WIDE open. And the ONLY way to control it, is with your software media player or recording software. Completely unuseable! You can't expect to be able to mix when you have to pull the master so far down to avoid blowing your eardrums out , that it's like -48db's , just to be at a comfortably loud playback level. What were they thinking making 3/4 outputs uncontrollable by the unit??...Anyway, I have tried to re-create this massive compression occuring by looping ouputs 1 and 2 back into 1 and 2 and recording it, but strangely enough, it doesn't get at all captured in the recording. I am so completely perplexed , because the sound out of 3 and 4 , even though I have to cut it way way down, is gloriously loud, punchy ...all the things you'd expect outputs 1 and 2 to perform like, without having to turn the monitor knob 3/4's the way up and even then still not as big, powerful and punchy as outputs 3/4. Totally, totally flummoxed with that issue and the random, horrific screeching distortion that seems to randomly occur one second, I stop the transport , move a window and poof, it's completely gone! Just absolutely nuts! No apparent rhyme or reason, no explanation...I've tried ASIO4ALL buffer sizes of 512 , 256 and made sure they matched Studio One's settings...just utterly bizarre. I've invested so much in my system and did not anticipate these issue, so can't really ditch everything and start over with new gear. BUMMED..

 

[spnc]

Just a quick update, I exchanged my new pair of 990 Pro 250 with a new pair of 900 Pro X (48 Ohm), as after trying them out I don't think the Motu is well designed to drive hungry 250 ohm cans (the Lake People amp on the outs improved the situation, but still it felt muddy and not very dynamic from the Motu source). And of my god, what a change! It feels so crisp, so neat, so clean, so fast, so round, the bass is amazing! which for me is the most important criteria in producing electronic/dance floor music. It makes the 990 sound like shit really, you can clearly tell the difference with the ageing 2004 old model (990) and the new STELLAR.45 drivers of the 900 X which are quite stellar indeed. You could even use them without amp, but obviously it's always better so in my case the G103-S MKII is making the best of this combo with tons of headroom.

I think this 250 ohm thingie is overrated. Perhaps it matters for classical and other types of music with rich harmonic contents? But for electronic/dance floor music I don't feel like there's an advantage in using high impedence cans? Probably when I can afford the more expensive high-end interfaces + headphones I will give another try with 250 ohm but until then I think 48-80 Ohm cans are totally fine (I'll give a try with planars soon as well).

 

[spnc]

Thank you for sharing.
The input gain is way too low, for all my bass DI's and preamps:
- If I boost the gain loud enough to record Im getting noise from the M4 preamp.
- If I don't boost when recording, I've to boost it on my Studio One later on, and the sound has less depth and definition than an old UR22.
- The M4 does not have option to turn on or off the Hi-Z, which is maybe part of my complain,
- Also, the output was louder on the left speaker than right speaker, I needed to apply some balance to boost the right speaker.
Balance which immediately get back to center when using the UR22.
The results I'm getting are nowhere near all the positive reviews I've read over the last weeks.
I'm no longer trusting this product. Therefore I returned the M4 last Saturday.
Im waiting for availability on a RME babyface or UCXII.

I'm with you on this one, I just realised my M4 is slightly louder on the right side (I ran different devices on it, same outcome).

It's barely noticeable but still annoying to make me upgrade to RME (hopefully they have a better quality control than Motu).