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Most powerful, yet detailed sounding headphones you have heard.

bigjacko

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that use HRTF work well with the ER4 which is why might get ER4B.
Does the HRTF really work? I had tried it but could not feel any difference on my HD6XX. How big is the difference?
 

yikky900

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Does the HRTF really work? I had tried it but could not feel any difference on my HD6XX. How big is the difference?

I have jb isone pro that lets you tweak to what sounds right. Made 2 test profiles it made stuff sound really 3D without sounding fake.
 

JJB70

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There is a lot recommendations on er4sr, is it the best iem? What other iems are good? Does iems have different image and sound stage with headphone and speaker? Is it worth getting iem if I already got over ear or speaker?

IEMs can sound superb and are a perfectly valid alternative to over ear headphones if you are comfortable using them. In fact, if you need a high level of noise isolation they can be a superior solution. However not everyone enjoys using IEMs and the Etymotics especially have a very deep fit which not everyone likes. The only ones I have other than the ones bundled with devices so I can't really offer other recommendations. I would recommend the ER4SR, provided you are OK with the fit.
 

MediumRare

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There is a lot recommendations on er4sr, is it the best iem? What other iems are good? Does iems have different image and sound stage with headphone and speaker? Is it worth getting iem if I already got over ear or speaker?
Check FR, impulse, distortion measurements (for example https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCD3sn2312488.pdf) and decide how much deep clean bass you need. There’s a big difference between different phones. Then listen to quite a few to decide what is comfortable.
 

ernestcarl

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I have jb isone pro that lets you tweak to what sounds right. Made 2 test profiles it made stuff sound really 3D without sounding fake.

Eh, do you mean TB Isone?

I use it whenever I can, alongside with other DSP plugins:

TB Morphit
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TB Isone
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Redline Monitor
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I only use the Harman Target when using Morphit with Redline Monitor. With Isone I just disable it -- and use the "Room Designer" processing instead. If you think Room Designer adds too much processing, you can easily disable it with just a click.

My presets differ radically esp. between closed and open cans.

Really, more people should be using DSP with headphones! Doesn't have to be these ones specifically. I used to be unable to tolerate the sound quality coming out from my MDR-V6... -- also the EX-29 profile in Sonarworks is great -- Morphit does not have it, unfortunately.

IMO, it helps a lot to have a good stereo reference (i.e. neutral studio monitors), to compare with when doing such adjustments instead of doing it just blindly.
 

yikky900

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It's like the 3rd picture but from a different place despite same name. Yup can very useful for speaker only music.
 

bigjacko

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Does iems generally have smaller sound stage or worse imaging? Are iems superior than headphone at the same price?
 

yikky900

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Does iems generally have smaller sound stage or worse imaging? Are iems superior than headphone at the same price?

The ER4SR has better imaging than HD600/SRH1540 which gives the impression its wide. I actually noticed that the jump from my ER4 to the SRH1540 wasn't that big, i have no why reviewers don't do tests to find the best fit before filming. But bass its equal the 12db on the shures is too much and the ER4 responds well to a +6db bass boost(+2.5 on 4XR) despite being 1 BA.

There also the fact since BA drivers have much more stiff diaphragm its sound more akin to a Planar/Estat than a DD. Also faster attack/decay which i have no idea how its a con on BA when Planar/Estat are the same.
 

JJB70

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Does iems generally have smaller sound stage or worse imaging? Are iems superior than headphone at the same price?

I am not sure it is possible to make such a generalisation since the performance of IEMs and headphones both vary and my experience is that price is not a good indicator of SQ. What I can say is that IEMs can match the performance of headphones, but soundstage does seem to be more challenging for them. And as I say, a more important consideration than SQ is probably whether you feel more comfortable using IEMs or headphones, it doesn't matter how good they are if you don't like wearing them.
I would offer three bits of general advice:

1. Do not assume that more expensive = better
2. Do not assume that multi driver = better (I very much agree with Yikky900 that the single BA Etymotics are better sounding IEMs than the multi-driver IEMs I've tried, in the case of the AKG K3003 I would go as far as to call them a bad IEM as they are quite awful IMO, despite their initial very high price; and
3. Do not assume that planar magnetic or even electrostatic is better than (pistonic) dynamic - it is all about implementation.
 

Frank Dernie

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3. Do not assume that planar magnetic or even electrostatic is better than (pistonic) dynamic - it is all about implementation.
Particularly this.
It is frequently claimed the whole diaphragm is driven but at frequencies where the wavelength is shorter than the gaps between electrodes obviously not, and the diaphragm of either can and will resonate however it is driven.
Waterfall plots of planar speakers always show ridges of resonances and a slow "stop".
Having said that I like planar speakers and headphones, and horn speakers which also stop slowly :)
 

yikky900

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2. Do not assume that multi driver = better (I very much agree with Yikky900 that the single BA Etymotics are better sounding IEMs than the multi-driver IEMs I've tried, in the case of the AKG K3003 I would go as far as to call them a bad IEM as they are quite awful IMO, despite their initial very high price; and

The dude who invented the ER4 was perplexed that that head fi was asking for a +2BA version and ignoring him saying why that wouldn't work, as if they knew better. Like what head fi/Reddit users do when they pretend to know what there saying. Loudspeakers need to be 2 to 3 way because of physics limitations on 1 DD speakers.

There reason why a IEM is full range since the chamber effect is why headphones are single driver to begin with and crossover networks are very basic too which shows on allot, like no cohericy. Every hybrid you could tell they struggle on that since the DD/BA both sound off, its worse with chifi 4 ways that are hyped.
 
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pwjazz

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The dude who invented the ER4 was perplexed that that head fi was asking for a +2BA version and ignoring him saying why that wouldn't work, as if they knew better. Like what head fi/Reddit users do when they pretend to know what there saying. Loudspeakers need to be 2 to 3 way because of physics limitations on 1 DD speakers.

There reason why a IEM is full range since the chamber effect is why headphones are single driver to begin with and crossover networks are very basic too which shows on allot, like no cohericy. Every hybrid you could tell they struggle on that since the DD/BA both sound off, its worse with chifi 4 ways that are hyped.

I'm seeing a lot of love here for Etymotic. I have a pair of HF5 and they do indeed sound fantastic, and the isolation is unreal. But, I never use them because I just don't like shoving things that deep into my ear canal. If they (or someone else) made a single BA IEM that works well without such deep insertion, I'd be all over that.
 

yikky900

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I'm seeing a lot of love here for Etymotic. I have a pair of HF5 and they do indeed sound fantastic, and the isolation is unreal. But, I never use them because I just don't like shoving things that deep into my ear canal. If they (or someone else) made a single BA IEM that works well without such deep insertion, I'd be all over that.

There always custom fits they can be fine if there etymotic approved ones.
 

JJB70

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I'm seeing a lot of love here for Etymotic. I have a pair of HF5 and they do indeed sound fantastic, and the isolation is unreal. But, I never use them because I just don't like shoving things that deep into my ear canal. If they (or someone else) made a single BA IEM that works well without such deep insertion, I'd be all over that.

This is indeed the big issue with the Etymotic design. I find them fine and I can wear them for long periods without feeling uncomfortable but it's true that not everyone will. It may help that I'm used to using industrial ear plugs as ear defenders which also get stuffed into my ears. The ER4SR is a superb IEM with splendid sound, but the fit is not for everyone for sure. That said, one of the best things I've bought in audio and a bit of a bargain.
 

yikky900

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I agree with the fit so many would give their opinions on the ER4S, What's funny they never tell if they got a proper fit or just mock the company kinda. Just like how people bash Grado stuff for being poorly measured without even giving them a chance. The superiority complex and people thinking there experts of subject is what the hobby side painful.
 

Earfonia

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Thank you for your list!
I have HE-560 have you heard them? If so is how would you compare HE-560 and HE-6?
Also I have noticed that on market there is a new model HE-6SE. Is it completely new model or just refreshed HE-6?

I haven't tried HE-560 so I cannot comment. Yeah I heard the HE-6SE, not sure if it is better than the old HE-6.
 

pwjazz

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There always custom fits they can be fine if there etymotic approved ones.

Oddly enough I actually got custom tips made for my HF5 :) Because of the required insertion depth and the very extreme bend of my ear canals (especially the right one), these are uncomfortable too. So for me, with IEM's I stick to ones tuned to sound good with a shallow insertion now :)
 
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donpablo

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Almost all headphones you posted are open back or iems. What about closed back models that fit to this thread?
 

echopraxia

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Hello,

I have a question to all headphone lovers here.
What are the most hugely, yet holographic (detailed) sounding headphones, that also give you 3D-soundstage audio feeling, you have ever heard? I mean that the instruments you would hear in the song give the feeling that they are really in the same room you are and sound they're producing almost resonate with your bones, giving you goosebumps. (I am not reffering for just bassy HPs, ofcourse they have to have concrete filled low frequencies, but it is not most important here).

As someone who got into hifi headphones before getting into hifi speakers, I've owned or extensively auditioned most of the major flagships. And I think I know exactly what you're looking for. I'm surprised nobody else seems to have mentioned this. To give you the sensation you're looking for, what you need is: Speakers.

I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but if I'm understanding what you want correctly, it's true that speakers are the only current solution. When you talk about 'that feeling that they are really in the same room', sound that 'resonates with your bones', '3D soundstage audio feeling', 'holographic', 'thick lush sound' all together, I think what you're looking for is the combination of reproducing the full 20hz-20khz audible spectrum not just to your ears, but all around you such that you feel the tactile sensation of it all.

When you say '3D soundstage' ,'holographic', 'detailed', most audiophiles will usually associate these with the quality of higher frequencies by default. I would as well, except that you mention 'feel they are really in the same room' and 'almost resonate with your bones' and 'thick lush sound' in the same sentence, and by that I know exactly what you mean:

I think what you are referring to is deep bass extension that is not just heard through your ears, but felt on your skin. The latter actually contributes hugely to even the '3D soundstage' and 'holographic' feel in a way headphones simply cannot match, and more obviously contributes to that 'thick lush powerful' sound. There are some exceptionally well mastered orchestral music recordings I play, where even though it doesn't seem to have a huge amount of deep bass content, when you switch the subwoofer on it's amazing just how much more deeper and wider the 'soundstage' feels than without. If I play the same content on headphones I know technically reach 20hz without attenuation, it's just not the same. I hear the frequencies, but I barely notice them because I do not feel it.

It's very hard to describe. If you listen closely on headphones, you can hear these deep resonances and echoes through the large hall in which it was recorded, but with speakers it is effortless and natural because you don't just analytically hear them -- you feel and experience the space that these low frequencies convey, and you percieve this space all around you. Even if subconsciously, it creates a powerful sense of space and depth that simply doesn't exist without these low frequencies played in the air around your body so that they are literally "felt in your bones" as you would put it, rather than just heard by the ears alone.

But unfortunately, as I've said, you won't get this from headphones. You could get close with headphones+subwoofer, in which case you might as well just go all the way to speakers+subwoofer.

There have been attempts to solve this with portable solutions to pair with headphones (so you don't have to carry a subwoofer around with you), but I have no idea how well they work; for example: https://www.woojer.com/vest/
 
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