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Most powerful, yet detailed sounding headphones you have heard.

watchnerd

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Anyone heard ZMF Eikon or Atticus, I am wondering wheter they fit this thread or not?

I've never heard of them, but I'm reluctant to buy boutique cottage-made headphones at a high price point.

Too many times those kind of companies go out of business 5-10 years later, then you can't get replacement parts anymore.
 

Ron Texas

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What is detailed?
 

Julf

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Take a look here: https://www.audiophileon.com/news/how-to-describe-sound-an-audiophile-terminology-guide
Detailed is best described with "Analytical, Detail" terms here.

Also what I mean in the topic of this thread could be described by these words from above article:
- Analytical, good Imaging, Lush, Natural, with wide Soundstage

This is Audio Science Review, so I don't think very many of us really pay much attention to vague, subjective terms. Science works by clearly defined, verifiable concepts such as dynamic range, signal to noise ratio, distortion and frequency response.
 

Frank Dernie

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Anyone heard ZMF Eikon or Atticus
I have Eikons and like them a lot, though they aren't my most used headphones (Verum 1). I haven't heard any of the other models in the linked review.
At home I usually use speakers and nowadays travelling I am using B&W PX noise compensating ones since travelling the last degree of fidelity is blanked by noise normally.
 
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donpablo

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@Julf Would be nice to check or create a method that would check which ones from these terms are measurable then it would be possible to lets say be objectively sure which headphones have wider Soundstage :)
 

Julf

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@Julf Would be nice to check or create a method that would check which ones from these terms are measurable then it would be possible to lets say be objectively sure which headphones have wider Soundstage :)

It is hard to measure terms that are vague and not well defined, but generally soundstage is a result of source material and possibly phase errors between channels, not the headphones as such.
 
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donpablo

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@Julf I have a suspicion that soundstage is related with how much of audio-waves are sorrounding our earlobes too. So depends from the size of the ears different people can rate same headphones differently in the term of soundstage, then so called imaging/spacious as well.
However, most of the descriptions should be similar.
 

watchnerd

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What is detailed?

I usually prefer to think of 'resolution', because 'detail' can be a psychoacoustically induced via EQ; example -- hearing more 'twang' detail in a guitar string.

Resolution, on the other hand, can be testing, both via listening and measurements in isolation, how quiet of a signal can be perceived at a given gain.
 

Ron Texas

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I suppose "detailed" is a subjective quality for which the answers will be subjective. There are lots of great cans out there at reasonable prices, and some others at unreasonable prices. What bothers me about the real expensive ones is that headphones have a relatively short useful life as compared to loudspeakers.
 

solderdude

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This is a 'translation' of some colorful wording to more objective FR bands (the way I see this)

descriptors2.png


What I did find is that not everyone uses the same 'colorful' words with the same meaning. That makes the colorful words less meaningful.

AiryDescribes the sense of space and openness of the music. Best heard in cymbals where the shimmer is realistic. This mostly has a relation with treble extension. It should be mentioned that not all well extended headphones sound 'airy' and some not so well extended headphones can still sound sort of 'airy'. The superlative (exaggerated) form af 'airy' sound is 'ethereal' where the sound feels very 'fragile' and overly 'delicate'.

AnalyticalA term used to describe a product that produces a high level of detail in reference to the music being played back. In technical terms this means the tonal response is between 'flat' and slightly elevated above 3kHz.

Balance – This could mean balance between channels or sometimes people use the term to describe Tonal Balance.
Balance between channels means the stereo image is right in the middle. In some cases balance can be correct for a certain part of the frequency range and not for higher or lower frequencies. This can be spotted in measurements. In sound it can lead to a fuzzy position of a stereo image.
Also one sided seal loss with headphones can cause this when bass is less prominent in the leaky side. On measurements with perfect seal this won't be obvious.

Bassy – This is the lower end frequency of the human hearing. Bass can be measured in quantity (heaviness) and quality. Other bass descriptors are muddy, punchy, rubbery, boomy and fat.
The bass area is between 25Hz and 300Hz but harmonics can go as high as 5kHz. Peaks and dips in the frequency range between 20Hz and 500Hz can make the bass sound different from realistic. For descriptors and the frequency range they fall into see the chart above.
The opposite of bassy is Lean

Bass (Lows) – can be divided 4 ranges: sub-bass (10Hz-25Hz) this is not audible as tones or notes but deep rumbles in movies are an example. When it is absent most people won't miss it. That is once you heard what bass extension does it can add to the musical experience. For instance with Piano music where pedals are used this lowest part can make the piano sound more real.
Lower bass (25Hz-50Hz) is the part of the bass where the deepest musical notes are. A small and gentle roll-off usually isn't very audible. A substantial roll-off (-10dB) is quite audible. Bass (50Hz-120Hz) is the part where most of the 'body' of bass instruments is. Sharp dips or peaks and emphasis or subdued parts here can color the bass, make it sound boomy, exaggerated, full, tight, dis-attached or muddy. The best sounding headphones/speakers have a flat response in the area. Some folks prefer substantially more bass than others. When traveling a bit more bass usually is welcome. High-bass (120Hz-250Hz) is where the harmonics of most bass sound producing instruments are. A small peak there may make bass sound tighter. Too much (>5dB) can make bass sound muddy and boomy. A dip in this area can make bass instruments sound 'wrong' or 'disattached'. This is where bass appears to be 'apart' from the music. Some people actually prefer a dip, certainly when the lower frequencies are elevated.

Bloat – Bloat is present usually in the mid bass. When frequencies below 400Hz are lifted opposite the mids and highs the bass can sound 'bloated' and overdone. When there is a dip around 150Hz this is the opposite of bloated and the bass sounds disattached.
Bloated bass often also causes 'bloom' in mens voices. In this case the male voice sounds unnaturally bassy/full and lacks clarity.
When only the part below 150Hz is boosted the bass doesn't sound 'bloated'.

Bright/Brightness – A small emphasis of upper mids. The frequency band between 1kHz and 7kHz. Brightness is a wider bandwidth form of Clarity + Detail, when exaggerated even more it becomes Shrill.

Clarity – A few dB emphasis between 1kHz and 3kHz can add some clarity for voices and instruments. The opposite (a dip) of clarity (seen a lot in headphones) could be described as Laid back, Sweet, lacking Attack. An exaggerated form is shrill, cold, hard.

Coarse – is another word for Grainy or Gritty and describes uneven treble response with deep dips and peaks. Note that measurements made with measurement gear using a fake Pinna can show substantial peaks and dips above 5kHz caused by the fake Pinna but may not indicate roughness nor should one try to EQ this out.

Cold – a general upward tilt in the frequency range between 300Hz and 3kHz. The opposite is warmth.

Congestion – Something sounds congested when it the sound is muffled and not very dynamic. It usually is a combination of emphasis in warmth and laid back sound / lacking in clarity.

Compressed – This can mean 2 things. There is compressed data and compressed music. Compressed data means that a file has been shrunk in size. Most people have heard of ZIP and RAR where one or more files are smaller in size so they can be sent as an attachment. This is lossless compression where the file can be reconstructed to its original size and then can be used. In Audio there are many lossless formats. The biggest difference with something like ZIP is that a ZIP file needs to be 'unpacked' before one can use the file (song or album) where audio files are de-compressed while the song is being played back. One can also compress files by leaving out data which can not be recovered later. The most well known lossy compression files are JPG (for pictures) and MP3 for music but there are many more formats. During the compression (encoding) one can usually select how much one throws away. More compression = more loss of fidelity.
When music is compressed the louder parts in a recording and lowered in volume and/or softer parts of a recording are amplified. Usually this is done in studios to get a more even sound. There is a fine line between this being done craft-fully (usually for each instrument its own compression) and it being overdone in dramatic ways. This sadly is very common for most popular recordings. Search for 'loudness wars'.
When a headphone sounds compressed it usually is bit bloated sounding and lacks realism/clarity/dynamics.

Crisp – is another description of having clarity, an exaggerated form is shrill. The opposite is laid back.

Dark/Darkness – Describes a gradual downward slope of frequencies above 3kHz often combined with an emphasis on bass/lower mids. An exaggerated form is Muffled. The opposite is Shrill

Decay – How a sound/note/resonance fades away over time. This is not always visible in the frequency response but could be visible in Cumulative Spectral Decay (Waterfall) plots. When there is some clarity and no mid bass emphasis most people describe the decay as fast.

Depth – How far away the instruments spacing is from back to front. In headphones this is not always perceived as such. Sometimes a gradual downward slope between 300Hz and 10kHz can also give a sense of depth imitating a greater distance from an actual music performance.

Detail – When something sounds detailed the frequency band between 1kHz and 3kHz is usually audibly flat or neutral and is more or less flat between 3kHz and 10kHz or has some mild emphasis (a few dB) or a peak in that part of the frequency range. An exaggerated form is Edgy, Sharpness, Sibliance.

Dynamic – When a headphone sounds dynamic it sounds 'lively' and instruments and voices 'pop-out' of clearly. It is the opposite of a relaxed, muffled or compressed sound. When a recording is truly dynamic there is a substantial difference between soft sounds and peaks.
You need to play the music loud to hear small details. Funnily enough when you can hear small details already at lower playback levels the sound is actually compressed yet many say, incorrectly, this is a dynamic sound.
The word dynamic is also used to describe a type of headphone driver (the most common type) where a magnet and voice-coil is used to create sound.
Then there is also dynamic range in an electrical sense. This describes how many difference in decibel there is between the signal and the noise and distortion products.
And finally Dynamic Range as in DR-rating. This describes how the difference between the average levels and peak levels in a recording.
Usually the recordings with DR ratings between 10 and 20 sound more realistic than recordings between 2 and 5.

Edgy or Etched – Between 3kHz and 7kHz, as a subset of brightness and Detailed, an exaggerated form of brightness/detail is Edgy, Etched, Sharpness, Sibliance. The opposite (a dip) can be described as lacking Finesse, dis-attached Treble.

Finesse – This describes fine and delicate details heard in music. When one can hear small details clearly, realistic and well defined as in not 'coarse'.
The opposite of finesse is grainy

Forward – When voices and instruments pop-out. This usually is caused by a mild peak in the 1kHz to 2kHz range. A small peak is usually not very detrimental to the sound at all. The opposite of forward is 'laid-back'.

Flat – When the frequency response does not deviate in the audible range something is considered flat.
When this word is used with headphones or speakers one usually finds that it doesn't color the sound (too much). Strangely enough not everyone that describes a sound as flat it actually is flat. So one man's 'flat' can be another ones bassy, boring, midrangy, or sharp sound.

Fun – This often describes a sound with elevated treble (>5kHz) and bass (<100Hz), also called 'U shaped' or 'bathtub shaped' sound.

Grainy – Also called 'gritty' and describes a sound that lacks finesse. The finer details are rendered a bit coarse. Often this is caused by lots of sharp peaks and deep dips in the treble area above 6kHz.

Harsh – This describes a sound similar as grainy but more concentrated in the midrange from 1kHz to 5kHz rather than in the treble range. Often distortion levels >1% in the midrange and or sharp peaks in that frequency range are the cause.

Highs – Also called treble, these are the upper frequencies above 5kHz.

Imaging – When a headphone or speaker images well it is very easy to pinpoint where instruments are and that image is stable and 'sharp'. This requires a flat frequency response and detailed sound. Slightly angled headphone drivers can have better 'imaging' as they make use of the ear-shape

Laid back – describes a relaxed sound signature and is caused by an audible and rather wide dip around 2-4kHz. It is the opposite of forward and dynamic. Upper mids and lower treble is under-emphasized and is found to be pleasant for longer listening sessions when the dip is just slight (between 5 and 10dB)

Lush – is similar to Laid back. It describes a rich, warm-pillowy sound usually with slightly elevated lower frequencies and rather wide dip around 2-4kHz with a good treble quality that is a bit higher in level than when said to be laid back.

Microphonics – sensitivity to touch. It could be present in some electronic components but in the case of headphones it refers to mechanically 'conducted' sounds of the cable. When one touches the earcups of a headphone one can hear this quite clearly. Depending on how a cable is coupled to the cup touching the cable does a similar thing but attenuated compared to touching the cups directly.
Cloth covered, thick and rigid cables usually are worse in this aspect then softer and thinner smooth surface cables. When microphonics are bad you can hear a cable rubbing against clothes when moving when music isn't even playing that loud. Some are annoyed others simply don't mind.

Mids/Midrange – Frequencies between roughly 250Hz and 4kHz. One can divide this in lower mids (250Hz - 500Hz) where the 'body' of voices and instrumens is. The mids (500Hz - 1500Hz) and upper mids (1.5kHz to 4kHz). In the upper mids the 'clarity' of voices and instruments as well as 'attack' of musical instruments can be found.

Muddy – Describes the sound of elevated lower mids/upper bass where the bass is not clearly defined and 'blends in' with the rest of the music in an unnaturally elevated way.

Muffled – sound is when it would appear as though the sound is coming from a speaker with a wool blanket draped over it. Lacking in clarity and treble. Frequencies above 2kHz are subdued and or rolled-off.

Natural – When a headphone sounds natural all instruments and voices are reproduced in a realistic manner without coloration, a correct stereo-image and with a dynamic sound.

Neutral – and neutral are closely the same but neutral is more about the reproduction of sound not being colored. All frequencies are reproduced at the proper level.
There can be concensus about how a headphone should measure to be considered neutral.
However, there are many people stating a headphone or speaker sounds neutral to them but in reality is quite colored. The term neutral used in subjective reviews thus can be considered a meaningless term unless comparisons are made to known neutral headphones.

Openness – Has little to do with a headphone being open or closed. It usually refers to a detailed and neutral sounding headphone where instruments have a clear separation. Headphones with a good clarity are often described as being ‘open’ sounding.

Punch – powerful bass and drum hits. A small emphasis around 100-150Hz can relatively boost harmonics of bass drum/bass.

Sharpness – An emphasis between 2kHz and 6kHz can give instruments and voices the impression of being ‘highlighted’ and sharply detailed.

Shrill – An exaggerated form of sharpness usually with an emphasis between 4kHz and 10kHz and is unpleasant, shreaky.

Sibilant / sibilance – A sharp peak in the frequency band between 5kHz and 8kHz can emphasize the ‘s’ sounds in words. A high peak (>5dB) can sound piercing and sharp and is usually fatiguing and unpleasant during longer listening sessions. A lower peak between 3dB and 5dB can create an illusion of ‘detail’ in music and ‘sharply’ defined instruments. In the long run also fatiguing.

Signature – the overall tonal balance of a headphone. One could describe a signature in many ways as found in this article.

Soft – can be used to describe the loudness (amplitude as in how loud the sound is) or the ‘texture’ of the treble. For the latter it can describe the amplitude opposite the bass and mids or define treble quality. When treble is not splashy elevated, sibilant or coarse but ‘sweet’ and pleasant it is often described as soft. When the frequency response is quite ‘flat’ between 6kHz and 15kHz without sharp peaks and dips the treble quality usually is good and depending on the relative level can be said to be soft or sweet.

Soundstage – Describes in 3d terms (height, width and depth) where one perceives recorded instruments. For headphones it is very rare to hear instruments ‘projected’ clearly meters in front of you without special recordings or software. In the vast majority of cases sounds are between left and right ear only. For headphones instead of soundstage the word headstage is used.
This describes how well instruments are defined between left and right and how ‘sharp’ they can be pinpointed. One has to realize the stereo image is created in the studio during mixing/mastering process and is artificial in most cases. For headphones there is crossfeed which makes some recordings easier to listen to but this too is just a ‘trick’.

Spatial – describes how sounds can be heard all around you. Requires digital trickery to pull this of with headphones. Usually to get spatial sound multiple speakers are required placed around the listening position. Related terms: crossfeed and soundstage/headstage.

Sweet – Corresponds with ‘lush’. It describes a ‘soft’ sound signature usually with slightly elevated lows and soft (not grainy or splashy) highs.

Timbre – The tone of a note from an instrument. Timbre is determined by the ratio between the fundamental tone and its harmonics. Headphones with a ‘flat’ tonal response should have the proper timbre. When the tonal balance is not flat timbre can be affected and changed. This can sometime be for the better or worse and depends on the recording. Do note that in studios timbre of each individual instrument is often adjusted to fit in the recording. This can’t be undone.

Tonal Balance – describes how 'flat' a headphone is. When the bass is boosted the tonal balance is bassy, when treble is boosted the tonal balance is 'bright'. When a headphone is described as tonally balanced no specific frequency bands are popping out or are subdued.
The real snag here is that some owners may feel a headphone is tonally balanced but in reality it may be bassy, bass-shy, midrangy or bright for instance. Tonally balanced = realistic sounding with no emphasis on anything.
Objectively tonal balance is difficult to prove headphone measurements can differ substantially between test-rigs.

Transparent – Similar to clarity it is a clean clear open and detailed quality.

Warm/warmth – a general downward tilt in the frequency range between 300Hz and 3kHz. The opposite is cold.
 
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Rja4000

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Well, most headphones are giving you a detailed -although sometimes biased- "view" on music.

In my limited headphones experience, I liked Stax headphones. Some Grado. And, lately, I really like some Focal. In my case, that's the closed back Elegia. ("Closed" was a key point in my tender spec.)
 

Rja4000

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This is Audio Science Review, so I don't think very many of us really pay much attention to vague, subjective terms. Science works by clearly defined, verifiable concepts such as dynamic range, signal to noise ratio, distortion and frequency response.
Well, you know...
I like to know how things measure, and so on. That's probably my anxious side.
But when it's about music (translate "pleasure"), ultimately, I don't care a cent about that.
I just need to feel it.
 

Ron Texas

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That depends if you can get replacement parts.

I've had my Sennheiser HD 600s for almost 20 years, having replaced cords, ear pads, etc, along the way.

Those aren't expensive and the company is huge. I suppose Focal will be around, but boutique companies have a way of disappearing.
 

watchnerd

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I'm starting to think this thread is a misfit for ASR (no offense to the OP).

More subjective-oriented sites may be better suited for enthusiastic recommendations as to tonal color preferences betwixt headphones.

We don't have a lot threads along the traditional lines, like "I upgraded to the Gazmotron Lucid XXX and it blew my Fostexes out of the water, I heard things I've heard before, plus the bass made my nose tingle, even my wife said so when she wore them, especially when used with the Splurgemeister DAC etc etc".
 

JJB70

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I still have a pair of HD580's from the mid 90's which still work fine and which I still use. And it's worth remembering that it is not that long ago that the HD580 then the HD600 etc (along with equivalent models like the AKG K701) were high end and pretty much as good as it got this side of esoteric electrostatic models. I find it to be a tremendous opportunity for anyone wanting a good set of headphones that some of those models are cheaper today than they were ten years ago, and I mean in terms of straight $ to $, not inflation adjusted dollars. The AKG K712 especially, for some reason AKG always seemed to be much more expensive in the US market but over here they now sell at about £175, that's a tremendous pair of headphones for £175. And Sennheiser routinely sell B stock HD650 and HD660 headphones for £230 - 270, bargain.
 
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donpablo

donpablo

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I'm starting to think this thread is a misfit for ASR (no offense to the OP).

More subjective-oriented sites may be better suited for enthusiastic recommendations as to tonal color preferences betwixt headphones.

We don't have a lot threads along the traditional lines, like "I upgraded to the Gazmotron Lucid XXX and it blew my Fostexes out of the water, I heard things I've heard before, plus the bass made my nose tingle, even my wife said so when she wore them, especially when used with the Splurgemeister DAC etc etc".

At least we could more or less establish what audio terms are possible to measure, and which are only on the subjective side.
I know that I can use EQ to change frequency response of every HP I have, which I have done many times. Yet it was impossible to make them sounding like other ones. The shape and material of which cups are made of, its size, the size of a drivers and tech behind them (dynamics, ortho, electrostatic) - it all matters and may create different audible results. You can not show all of that with a single line on frequency response chart. Because it is like trying to desribe a whole 3 minute song with a signle avaraged line showing what frequencies in this song are most present.

Imho frequency response graphs should also be... lets say a few seconds lasting recording/animation of how certain headphones are reproducing the same test-audio-file.
 
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