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Most linear near field studio monitors?

FeddyLost

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Or are they just marketing, overpriced crap?
As i can understand, they are ok for fast mixing, but bad for mastering.
They are not extremely linear according to review and experience of users.

PS What about Dunlavy/Duntech? They are most linear (including phase) passive speakers unless we go into Dynaudio Evidence range.
Something is available through audio-markt, unfortunately big floorstanders.
Duntech D200 currently available in Italy.
 

temps

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Since you seem to want to continue using the Bryston, perhaps consider the LS50 Meta? Passive, coaxial, great directivity, more neutral than most studio monitors. Needs a sub though.
these are an absolutely excellent choice for monitors. Coaxial speakers perform very well in a monitoring application - these are the closest thing to a well implemented, 2 way Genelec One. Since OP wants to use his power amp, this would be my top recommendation

The R3 is even better but unfortunately is difficult to accommodate on a lot of desks, very very big.
 

Bartl007

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Have always wanted to hear the Meyer sound AMIE monitors. Very linear frequency response, and phase response.... If only I had the budget for the bluehorns!
 
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spankjam

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Are there reviews of the Amphion One 18 or PSI A17 here on this board?
 

FeddyLost

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why they give the PSi 3 measurement stars and one star for listening experience
You need to check what monitor have more stars and why.
I'd say that's 90% due to their limited size/power/bass and front ported construction vs. KH310.
They are really small and their deficiencies are obvious in direct comparison with something bigger full-range in damped studio.

that the ProAcs are actually better speakers?
It depends on what is "better" for you.
Proacs are passive, bigger, not phase corrected, more expensive (much more if you add really good amp) and have not very good control of LF as mentioned in Stereophile as price of low LF extension.
They are different tools for different purposes.
 

lowkeyoperations

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If you are looking for passive monitors for mixing, I’d say the Amphion One15’s are basically the new Yamaha NS10’s (except they don’t sound as crap haha).

I also own KH120s and have used them in my studio for years.

The One15s are light years ahead what you are aiming for is to mix music that translates well across other playback systems.
unlike the KH120s, the One15s really highlight what is wrong with your mix and what adjustments need to be made to fix it. It is only after mixing a song properly that they start sounding nice.

the KH120s on the other hand sound nicer. They trick you into thinking your mix already sounds good enough. On the KH120s I often can’t hear the difference between compressor settings unless they are fairly extreme. On the One 15s I can hear the difference between 10 or 30 ms attack settings very clearly. The bass in the 120s is deeper and more satisfying when listening, but the One15s provide bass that is very easy to hear and make judgements on. There were numerous times I just couldn’t nail the low end in my tracks on the KH120s. Not so on the One15s. The bass is super dry but very clear.
When clearing up the mud in mixes, the One15s slight low mid boost makes that job really easy. Again on the 120s it’s hard to tell the difference between frequencies as they tend to glue everything together a little more

The KH120s are better as playback speakers because they make things sound slightly nicer, and have a good overall sound. They are a lot more punchy and make great (accurate) hifi speakers.

the One 15s make poorly mixed music sound terrible and only start to sound good when the mix is done. They don’t over hype the music and are amazing at highlighting problems. If you can get a mix to sing on these speakers, it’s sounds awesome on anything else. And that’s the whole point of studio monitors for mixing.

they won’t impress clients and aren’t loud enough for tracking. But for mixing you can’t beat them. Check out the thread over at Gearslutz (oops, Gearspace).
 
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spankjam

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So, I've had the opportunity to try the new Genelecs with the tweeter in the middle, Amphion One 18, PSi 17 and the Neumann KH310.

The Neumann KH310 are amazing, super linear, crazy low end and very smooth high end however, from a mixing perspective, it's really hard to identify the mid range and treble on these speakers and the low end seems to be somewhat overemphasized but I'd love to use them as a second pair listening setup, not for referencing though.

The new Genelecs are surprisingly linear as well with great mid range, not as overemphasized as the KH310 but really very wide low end range and good treble representation but the high end is really harsh and on longer mixing sessions would make me tame it / take out it when it wouldn't be necessary.

Just as the KH310s, the PSi A17 have an amazing listening experience but the low mids acuatically are hanging out like beer belly, they do sound nice from a listeners perspective, giving you a "warm" sound but to my ears not really linear. The lows are great, not as huge as on the KH310s but rather correct like the Genelecs and not overemphasized so actually translate well. Sadly, I really had a hard time pointing out the treble and could barely hear the high end. Great speaker for listening in my opinion or as a second referencing monitor such as the KH310 but not really for making critical decisions in the treble and high end. I actually expected the PSi 17a to sound completely different.

One big problem the PSis have, is the transient response, compared to the KH310, Genelecs and Amphions, I find it really dampened and not as responsive, very mushy.

I originally thought I'd prefer the PSis or the KH310s given all the reviews but to my surprise, the Amphion One 18s hit the mark. They have an incredible transient response, amazing mid, treble and high end extension where I'm able to exactly pin point Instruments' frequency representation. They don't have the same amazing low end representation as the KH310, Genelecs or PSi A17 but translate amazingly well in anything above. You also can't make them as loud as all the others but they are nearfield monitors and shouldn't be cranked that much I feel. But for it's size, they also have a surprisingly good low end. The high end also while being very present is smooth as hell and won't fatigue.

Compared to all the other speakers, the Amphion One 18s have the most transparent sonic representation without having any coloration or dampened area. If the Amphions hadn't been available, I probably would've picked the genelecs and dampened the tweeter a bit.

All of them had a great stereo image and widness.

But I do understand why the Amphions are so hyped, they have an amazing translation, impeccable transient response and would be a step up from my ProAc SM 100. Which have a little bit of a 100 - 150 Hz hump and 10k bump but as the Amphions also translated amazingly well and give a very transparent sonic representation.

I am first and foremost a mixing engineer and have honed that craft at an early age for the past 20 years which means I'm usually pushing untreated sources heavily into an area where they shine vs working on already finished tracks. In that regard, low mids, mid range, treble and high end are the most important frequency areas while making sure that the low end is as fat as possible without feeling out of place with the rest.
 

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Pearljam5000

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So, I've had the opportunity to try the new Genelecs with the tweeter in the middle, Amphion One 18, PSi 17 and the Neumann KH310.

The Neumann KH310 are amazing, super linear, crazy low end and very smooth high end however, from a mixing perspective, it's really hard to identify the mid range and treble on these speakers and the low end seems to be somewhat overemphasized but I'd love to use them as a second pair listening setup, not for referencing though.

The new Genelecs are surprisingly linear as well with great mid range, not as overemphasized as the KH310 but really very wide low end range and good treble representation but the high end is really harsh and on longer mixing sessions would make me tame it / take out it when it wouldn't be necessary.

Just as the KH310s, the PSi A17 have an amazing listening experience but the low mids acuatically are hanging out like beer belly, they do sound nice from a listeners perspective, giving you a "warm" sound but to my ears not really linear. The lows are great, not as huge as on the KH310s but rather correct like the Genelecs and not overemphasized so actually translate well. Sadly, I really had a hard time pointing out the treble and could barely hear the high end. Great speaker for listening in my opinion or as a second referencing monitor such as the KH310 but not really for making critical decisions in the treble and high end. I actually expected the PSi 17a to sound completely different.

One big problem the PSis have, is the transient response, compared to the KH310, Genelecs and Amphions, I find it really dampened and not as responsive, very mushy.

I originally thought I'd prefer the PSis or the KH310s given all the reviews but to my surprise, the Amphion One 18s hit the mark. They have an incredible transient response, amazing mid, treble and high end extension where I'm able to exactly pin point Instruments' frequency representation. They don't have the same amazing low end representation as the KH310, Genelecs or PSi A17 but translate amazingly well in anything above. You also can't make them as loud as all the others but they are nearfield monitors and shouldn't be cranked that much I feel. But for it's size, they also have a surprisingly good low end. The high end also while being very present is smooth as hell and won't fatigue.

Compared to all the other speakers, the Amphion One 18s have the most transparent sonic representation without having any coloration or dampened area. If the Amphions hadn't been available, I probably would've picked the genelecs and dampened the tweeter a bit.

All of them had a great stereo image and widness.

But I do understand why the Amphions are so hyped, they have an amazing translation, impeccable transient response and would be a step up from my ProAc SM 100. Which have a little bit of a 100 - 150 Hz hump and 10k bump but as the Amphions also translated amazingly well and give a very transparent sonic representation.

I am first and foremost a mixing engineer and have honed that craft at an early age for the past 20 years which means I'm usually pushing untreated sources heavily into an area where they shine vs working on already finished tracks. In that regard, low mids, mid range, treble and high end are the most important frequency areas while making sure that the low end is as fat as possible without feeling out of place with the rest.
Have tried the trio 11 and KH420 also?
 

dfuller

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The Neumann KH310 are amazing, super linear, crazy low end and very smooth high end however, from a mixing perspective, it's really hard to identify the mid range and treble on these speakers and the low end seems to be somewhat overemphasized but I'd love to use them as a second pair listening setup, not for referencing though.
This is about the only thing I don't like about mine. They're a little... soft? I guess, in the midrange. Super detailed, but I think a slight hump around 1.5-2k (like maybe a dB) could make them sound a little more "real" there. In fact, I'm going to try that and report back.

Update: Yep! This did it. 1dB at a Q of 0.5 at 2k, the "softness" disappears.
 
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lowkeyoperations

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My Neumann KH120s have a dip switch on the back to cut the bass by 2.5 to 7.5db. Rolling off the bass certainly doesn’t turn them into a pair of Amphion One15s.

The 120s are just no where near as revealing of problems in the mix as the One15s.
 

cany89

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I got JBL 705 with dual subs (I was ok with 1 sub too) and I'm very happy :)
(There is an in audible narrow Q dip - probably port - in the measurements. Don't mind that. Not that you can't fix it with EQ but I would say there is nothing to fix.)
 

aac

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High pass isn't the same as shelving.
Are you sure you are not just hearing that 500 hz bump on amphion fr as "revealing"?
After hearing some "raw" amateur recordings I am convinced that all these "fixing problems in the mix" do more harm than good quite often.
 

lowkeyoperations

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Yes I’m sure. A bump at 500hz might be revealing of some low mid mud. But the Amphions are more revealing across the frequency range. The One 15s will let you know if your hats are too piercing. The KH120s not so much.

Are you a mixer by any chance?
I’m not sure what your last sentence was supposed to mean, but the difference between raw stems and a final mix is usually night and day.
 

aac

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No, I am not.
To me claims like "let you know hats are piercing" are a mystery, thats why I'm questioning it.
Are they even piercing or not if they vary from speaker to speaker? Especially if speaker that "does not show it" is a less (objectively, at least for the metrics measured) distorting one? Or is it just a "safety mechanism" making records sound acceptable on worse speakers for an exchange of slight performance degradation on better ones?
 

lowkeyoperations

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The point about mixing, is to be able to produce music that translates across a broad range of playback systems. The Amphions are great tools to enable you to sculpt a mix that will translate well. If you want to get more info, then I suggest the “Amphion Beautiful” thread at Gearspace.

Most big studios have a pair of nearfields, midfields, soffit mounted far fields and a mono avantone. And yes, for commercial music, you need to mix the song so that it sounds good on a wide variety of speakers.

But also what is critical is to be able to hear problems. Is a frequency in the kick reinforcing a frequency in the bass, causing a peak in level for example. And if it is what frequency is it? Is it 130Hz or 150 Hz? I could never hear those distinctions clearly on the KH120s. It was hard to hear exactly where the problem was. On the One15s it’s easier to locate and fix. Same on the high end. I’m sure you have heard recordings with over emphasised ‘s’es. They were likely produced on speakers with an overly smooth top end.
As mentioned in the thread on timing, the One15s highlight subtle changes that occur between various compressor attack and release settings that are just not as evident on the KH120s.

All of this makes the Amphions great nearfield studio monitors *for mixing*. I don’t describe the One15s as enjoyable to listen to, and out in the lounge room I would rather listen to my KH120s.
 
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aac

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They were likely produced on speakers with an overly smooth top end.
My speakers seem to be more or less smooth too in that region, so not a big deal, it's really rare actually. Even more rare as I listen mostly to instrumental music.
 
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