Most DACs 'more than' good enough yet still, people keep searching for Holy Grails. Why?

[Westsounds]

With the standards of DACs in measurements terms getting extremely high why do people still search and try to find meaning in their equipment or justify high prices?

If DACs are now of a certain standard I am only assuming it is flavour, colouration or distortion within the equipment audiophiles are now wanting and to justify paying more than they have to or for particular brands.

Even if things measure the same I'm sure we can agree that things can often sound different for whatever reason. Subtle nuances that are presented or 'textures' as many would like to quantify it. Every piece of consumers electronics has millions of possible variations on design to get to similar results so nothing can sound exactly identical to the finest of human hearing.

Ultimately are people just continually searching for colouration or harmonic distortion that they find pleasing?

With digital as it is now is it just possible to stop continually swapping DACs with the high levels we've got to. Perhaps people can just develop software to add these colourations/distortions, with apps/computer front ends whatever that can do it. I was just reading about one this morning 'AirVinyl' an app that was developed for iPads/iPhones that can add vinyl warmth and harmonics without the surface noise. Maybe more focus and future development should be on fine-tuning these now rather than developing even more DACs.

AirVinyl app unites vinyl and digital

Air Studios' new iPad app brings "analogue harmonics" to digital music tracks.

www.digitalspy.com

 

[Chester]

Because it would be very boring and not much of a hobby if we all had the same 4 components in our system.

 

[Westsounds]

Yes maybe But scientifically speaking it would be better for everyone.

 

[solderdude]

With the standards of DACs in measurements terms getting extremely high why do people still search and try to find meaning in their equipment or justify high prices?

Because they fall for the advertising talk, because they believe more expensive = better, because of looks/dimensions, because of connectivity, because of functionality, because A measures better than B and C, because people want the newest, because people like to show off, because people like jewelry, because of... (you can think of a few more).

Its human nature... we all are human after all.

Very, very few people simply buy the cheapest gear with a transparent nature.

 

[Zensō]

GAS (gear acquisition syndrome). It’s a phenomenon that is normally associated with musicians, but it’s widespread among audiophiles as well.

Gear Acquisition Syndrome

library.oapen.org

 

[Mart68]

lots of people think DACs differ in their sound as much as pickup cartridges or even loudspeakers.

Also I have noticed that it seems to be generally thought that DACs are 'advancing' rapidly and that there's a big step up in sound quality with each new generation i.e every six months or so.

And of course more expensive automatically means better sound quality.

it's amazing the ideas people get stuck into their heads, and once there nothing will shake them loose.

 

[Jimbob54]

I would love to see the movements in the global market for DACs- meaning what we refer to here, standalone boxes for hifi listening. I suspect it has grown significantly due to the expanding youtube "audiophile" channel explosion where more people are becoming aware that for $300 you can have a cracking desktop nearfield / headfi set up. I also suspect the market will slump when people realise the replacement $300 "upgrade" they bought over and above the $100 DAC last year brings little to no performance uplift.

 

[Music1969]

Features is still a differentiator among all the stellar measuring DACs today.

Who has the most inputs?

Streaming inputs?

Bluetooth codecs?

Who has the most powerful built-in headphone amp?

Built-in EQ? Like RME ADI-2

 

[Trell]

DACs differs in connectivity, features, build quality and support that can motivate different prices.

I’ve the RME ADI-2 DAC that is expensive but it also have DSP (dynamic loudness, PEQ, …), powerful headphone amplifier, balanced output, a remote as well as a very useful screen for setup and signal diagnosis.

 

[JayGilb]

The need to feel special or better than others runs very deep in our species. Keeping ahead of the Joneses overlaps into many different areas and with the ability to go online and post images of your material possessions, it now extends far beyond the physical neighborhood.

 

[Westsounds]

Because they fall for the advertising talk, because they believe more expensive = better, because of looks/dimensions, because of connectivity, because of functionality, because A measures better than B and C, because people want the newest, because people like to show off, because people like jewelry, because of... (you can think of a few more).

Its human nature... we all are human after all.

Very, very few people simply buy the cheapest gear with a transparent nature.

Yes, I get all this. Everyone has a statement to make in life and wants a particular DAC for so many different uses or reasons. Just like many want to wear leathers, have beards and ride Harley Davidson's or instead want to wear suits as part of their identity. The trouble I see with DACs is many can't tell the difference yet they convince themselves, or as I said are looking for something, distortion, organic bloom, euphoric vocals whatever. If technically they are all doing their job as they should past a certain level then these anomalies are costing them more than needed and can even be added if they desire through the better use of software technology now.

Because they fall for the advertising talk, because they believe more expensive = better, because of looks/dimensions, because of connectivity, because of functionality, because A measures better than B and C, because people want the newest, because people like to show off, because people like jewelry, because of... (you can think of a few more).

Its human nature... we all are human after all.

Very, very few people simply buy the cheapest gear with a transparent nature.

Yes, these are facts! Scientifically Rolex watches tell the time no better or even be made to look as desirable even as something a fraction of the value, yet people still buy them. Human Nature gets a very bad rap I feel, these are more liked learned behaviours and environment, peer pressures or whatever that get lumped in the HN category, unfortunately

it's amazing the ideas people get stuck into their heads, and once there nothing will shake them loose.

Yep, scientifically again, like religions. Technically some of them are wrong and everyone is an atheist to someone else's religion. It's no different with 'some' branded equipment as far as I can see. The only thing you are sometimes guaranteed when buying certain equipment is maybe a character that they usually aim for. Or it could be for multiple other reasons, service, aftercare, reputation, component choice, the list is endless really. And as you point out people are complex creatures!

 

[solderdude]

The trouble I see with DACs is many can't tell the difference yet they convince themselves, or as I said are looking for something, distortion, organic bloom, euphoric vocals whatever. If technically they are all doing their job as they should past a certain level then these anomalies are costing them more than needed and can even be added if they desire through the better use of software technology now

That too is human nature. They WANT to believe and as long as they just use their ears the perceived differences are as real as you and me to them.
I always say people want to be conned but don't want to know they are/have been.

 

[Plan9]

Yes, I get all this. Everyone has a statement to make in life and wants a particular DAC for so many different uses or reasons. Just like many want to wear leathers, have beards and ride Harley Davidson's or instead want to wear suits as part of their identity. The trouble I see with DACs is many can't tell the difference yet they convince themselves, or as I said are looking for something, distortion, organic bloom, euphoric vocals whatever. If technically they are all doing their job as they should past a certain level then these anomalies are costing them more than needed and can even be added if they desire through the better use of software technology now.

Yes, these are facts! Scientifically Rolex watches tell the time no better or even be made to look as desirable even as something a fraction of the value, yet people still buy them. Human Nature gets a very bad rap I feel, these are more liked learned behaviours and environment, peer pressures or whatever that get lumped in the HN category, unfortunately

Yep, scientifically again, like religions. Technically some of them are wrong and everyone is an atheist to someone else's religion. It's no different with 'some' branded equipment as far as I can see. The only thing you are sometimes guaranteed when buying certain equipment is maybe a character that they usually aim for. Or it could be for multiple other reasons, service, aftercare, reputation, "component choice, the list is endless really. And as you point out people are complex creatures!

 

[Plan9]

Never, ever wanted to ride a fat Harley sporting the retired dentist rebel beard....

 

[Westsounds]

GAS (gear acquisition syndrome). It’s a phenomenon that is normally associated with musicians, but it’s widespread among audiophiles as well.

Gear Acquisition Syndrome

library.oapen.org

And thanks for this as well. I haven't read it all yet but I will and can kind of guess what this book/paper is about though.

I'm an amateur musician myself, maybe even say experienced with certain things. I know this phenomenon only too well. In fact, it was kind of being a musician that opened my eyes to how daft the audiophile world can be. Musicians often use low-fidelity sounding things as instruments yet people make so many assumptions on how they should sound. Again price is often a factor that some believe turns into quality as well, which is so far from what is actually happening sometimes

Great though, thanks for sharing that, I will look forward to reading another take on what I kind of already know.

 

[JayGilb]

. And as you point out people are complex creatures!

Complex, yes, but it's the evolutionary side of our nature that comes into play with a lot of these decisions. Many eons ago, it was the south facing cave, the fattest cuts of meat and breeding partners with certain physical attributes that made it more likely that our genetic material would be propagated.

Societal advancement and scientific progress has largely eliminated the struggle for these most basic needs, but yet we continue down the same path because it is intrinsic in our nature and now we transfer the search to objects that are no longer essential to our survival.

 

[Westsounds]

Never, ever wanted to ride a fat Harley sporting the retired dentist rebel beard....

Then you possibly don't know what you are missing

 

[ahofer]

1) it's fun, 2) still like the right combination of features. I like the RME inclusion of EQ and dynamic loudness. It would be perfect if it incorporated Roon-ready and Chromecast and/or Airplay streaming. The Pi works fine, but it's just a little messier in terms of cables and wall warts.

Similarly, if Cambridge included EQ, dynamic loudness, and subwoofer management in its CXN - One device to rule them all.

 

[Vict0r]

A $20 Timex or Casio digital quartz watch tells time more accurately than a $10.000 mechanical Rolex.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Because it would be very boring and not much of a hobby if we all had the same 4 components in our system.

Bingo! Plus, what about guys who have a bunch of money and don't want to spend it on strippers? They can easily buy the "potato chip" of audio, a new DAC. You just can't have only one! So, audio potato chips will sell like crazy, plus they are not generally over $1000. Guys love to waste money on "things". It is in our DNA!