Most beautiful speakers in the world ?

[youpassbutter]

The most beautiful speakers I ever owned were the Zu Soul Mk. 2’s. With a sub to handle the low end and Dirac to tame the Zu-ness as best I could, they were also incredibly fun.

 

[Keith_W]

No evidences so far that perfect step response is necessary in loudspeakers.

And there is no evidence that a perfect step response does not give audible improvements either. Obtaining a perfect step response is trivial with DSP, so if you have the ability to do it - why not do it? It won't cause any harm.

 

[Trifonov Audio]

Audio science (which use math and physics knowledge) was interested if good step response is beneficial in loudspeaker reproduction. After many blind listening tests, no success so far. I will call it day.
Science don't care about anyone opinion, if it is not backed by facts and evidences. No evidences so far that perfect step response is necessary in loudspeakers.

As I shared - everyone has the right to an opinion based on engineering-technical knowledge and subjective sound culture!
Who has not become acquainted with the fundamental research of R. Heiser, Möller, Boegli, and others and who has not done research with Impulses, but "observes" frequency response only - which is a STATIONARY parameter and does not provide information about Dynamic Transient Processes.....sorry! I cannot be of any use to such an interlocutor! Thanks for your attention! It's time for a beer, cheers!

 

[Petrushka]

Humm, well my grandmother used to complain a lot about the bobbin thread breaking.

I could go on for a while about troubleshooting. I don’t sew, but I’ve rebuilt a couple of machines that use cans.

Some idiot decided around 1960 to make gears and cams out of plastic. Even the Swiss machines.

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

And there is no evidence that a perfect step response does not give audible improvements either.

That is what I am saying.

Obtaining a perfect step response is trivial with DSP, so if you have the ability to do it - why not do it? It won't cause any harm.

Yes, if there is a DSP with enough resources, it should be done - I concur.
But if someone don't have DSP or doesn't want to use it... no harm again.

 

[Mnyb]

My 2c its actually with the arrival of DSP and very good coaxial/coincident drivers we can explore if perfect step response matters .

My KEF LS60 has "phase compensation" as a feature .

Before that, with very shallow passive filters and separated drivers the enormous overlap made all kind if interference problems in crossover region. The off axis response was probably the victim here , you could probably optimize direct sound for a given narrow listen position . MOving the burden to the end custommer to make extensive acoustic mods to the room .

And it made huge demands on the drivers , so power handling distorsion etc would suffer . Expensive Dynaudio tweeters was probably developed for this application ?
Cone breakup in bass midrange made all kind of notch filters necessary etc etc .

My point is that the general design demands of a passive speaker to really be of first order type with perfect step response would make it very different in many other parameters .
* many drawbacks that would make it a worse speaker than otherwise possible . If you "give up" this first order feature you gain massive benefits in other areas.
You must really have an unlimited budget making it a multiway like dunlavy or something similar ? otherwise the best compromise seems to ditch the first order xover to gain other benefits in any normal budget . So its was a niche

* one could not possible separate out the "phase time cohernce" factor from other factors when listening as the design has to be so different to make this possible.
Does it sound different due to perfect step response or because the whole design has to be optimised for this ?

I've owned Thiel speakers they sounded beautiful , so i have noting against this kind of speakers , but i remain unconvinced that's its a good compromise ?
You seems to gain very little or possibly nothing ? Very few recordings and rooms makes it even possible to appreciate the difference if it indeed is audible ( research indicates its not )

But with arrival of active DSP speakers you can have your cake and eat it in that context its very well worth exploring , you dont make damaging compromises or make the product more expensive .

 

[Newman]

All speakers in the world should be designed and manufactured on this principle!
Because the input signal (i.e. the "Live" sound) has no phase-time distortions,
which are caused by crossovers higher than first order and drivers mounted on a common vertical plane!!

As discussed by many here including Floyd Toole himself, the input signal is riddled with phase distortions. Your entire guiding principle is a myth!

Fortunately, others have replied to your post with sufficient explanation. Moving on.

cheers

 

[Gorgonzola]

There is no evidence that perfect step response is necessary for excellent loudspeaker performance, but that does not prove that temporal behavior is irrelevant.

Using a Gsonic-generated FIR filter very significantly improve my system, at least subjectively ... deeper, more palpable soundstage, more realistic sound.

I should say at least that the bass was hugely improve, probably due to better subwoofer integrations.

 

[Trifonov Audio]

Using a Gsonic-generated FIR filter very significantly improve my system, at least subjectively ... deeper, more palpable soundstage, more realistic sound.

If possible - show Step Response to colleagues and friends who deny that this is important!

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

This thread was much more fun when the only arguments were about whether the pictured speaker was divine or hideous

 

[Gorgonzola]

If possible - show Step Response to colleagues and friends who deny that this is important!

I would love to do this but I'm not adept at using REW. Even so, perhaps I can get around to it.

 

[Soniclife]

Using a Gsonic-generated FIR filter very significantly improve my system, at least subjectively ... deeper, more palpable soundstage, more realistic sound.

I should say at least that the bass was hugely improve, probably due to better subwoofer integrations.

It's that mainly changing the frequency response?

 

[OldHvyMec]

This thread was much more fun when the only arguments were about whether the pictured speaker was divine or hideous

I AGREE!!!

Take the arguments and start a new thread; this kind of back-and-forth has no place in a thread like this.

Mr. Moderator, would you please get these members back on track?

I'll just go feed the chickens while you do that.

Thanks, by the way.

Regards

 

[Gorgonzola]

It's that mainly changing the frequency response?

Not at all. I had previously corrected FR by other, simpler means, i.e. EQ without time domain corrections such as I persume the FIR filter makes.

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

If possible - show Step Response to colleagues and friends who deny that this is important!

No need for that. I know how perfect step response look like - picture alone It is not an evidence for better sound.

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

This thread was much more fun when the only arguments were about whether the pictured speaker was divine or hideous

Stepped front baffle (for perfect step response attempt) has important impact on the look of the loudspeaker enclosure. I found it interesting, if not beautiful.

 

[Audionaut]

This thread was much more fun when the only arguments were about whether the pictured speaker was divine or hideous

Apertura Enigma Mk 2

 

[Audionaut]

Amphion ONE15

 

[Audionaut]

Swans F1.1

 

[Trifonov Audio]

No need for that. I know how perfect step response look like - picture alone It is not an evidence for better sound.

The picture itself is not proof, but together with other conditions it may be a prerequisite and for satisfaction and the positive comment.