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Most bang for the buck. Combination amplifier speakers
- Thread starter DanielT
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AnalogSteph
Major Contributor
Although, to be fair, I would check how much the NC252MP based version costs, it might not be that much more while delivering twice the maximum power. At some point the cost for casework exceeds that for electronics, so prices will approach an asymptotic minimum. (I happened to look up the Audiophonics amps recently, it's 469€ instead of 369€. Might be well worth it if it means you can extend the list of candidates for speakers to ones up to 3 dB less sensitive. Besides, into 8 ohms an NC122MP is only a "honest" 50 wpc amp anyway, that's by no means super powerful. If you want to hit 103 dB SPL @ 1 m anechoic with that, minimum speaker sensitivity has to be 86 dB / 2.83 V. Now if all you need it for is a desk setup and idle power consumption is also important, the little 122MP may still be worth it.)
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DanielT
Major Contributor
- Thread Starter
- #25
Nice amplifiers .... Or it can be something vintage or DIY. Maybe. ..Will be at this fair this year. Sale of various hi-fi at that fair. Add some links, you can look at some pictures from last years' fairs.
http://www.hififorum.nu/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=96658
http://www.hififorum.nu/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=95918
This sharp DIY person will show his new creations this year:
https://www.faktiskt.io/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71903
(run google translate if you are curious about what is being said).
Here Solhaga fixes with parts for his new DIY speakers. It is important to go all in when it comes to DIY
(I'm not even close with my little, extremely small, DIY project)
But when it comes to amplifiers, it will probably still be something new in the future, mostly because I do not really have the knowledge and experience to service and maintain a vintage.
Maybe my Fostex 600 will be really good after the recap. Then I will use it for a while in the future.
http://www.hififorum.nu/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=96658
http://www.hififorum.nu/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=95918
This sharp DIY person will show his new creations this year:
https://www.faktiskt.io/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71903
(run google translate if you are curious about what is being said).
Here Solhaga fixes with parts for his new DIY speakers. It is important to go all in when it comes to DIY
(I'm not even close with my little, extremely small, DIY project)
But when it comes to amplifiers, it will probably still be something new in the future, mostly because I do not really have the knowledge and experience to service and maintain a vintage.
Maybe my Fostex 600 will be really good after the recap. Then I will use it for a while in the future.
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DanielT
Major Contributor
- Thread Starter
- #26
But what does bang for the bucks really mean? Maybe doing what you could not afford as a teenager? That's the case with me anyway. Try and have fun.
Bought a tube amplifier (DIY), as well as a vintage amplifier and tuner (testing a few different colors with the light in the lamps, I can just as well go all the way, if I have fixed colored sound, it is just as good to color the light as well .. )
It will probably end up with a neutral amplifier. An amplifier that are linear with inaudibled distorted sound. Which can drive speakers without clipping, with sensible negative feedback (damping factor). You can still color the sound with an EQ, if you feel like it. I suspect that will be the end of my hifi Odysseus' journey.
However, just speakers are for me another thing where I thought to put the gunpowder. I really need to think about that. Which sensible speakers should I invest in, ie. The amplifiers in the picture are bought used. If I feel like it, I can definitely sell them. I will not win any money on them. On the other hand, I will not lose that much either. It also does not matter. I mostly do hifi now because it's fun.
Bought a tube amplifier (DIY), as well as a vintage amplifier and tuner (testing a few different colors with the light in the lamps, I can just as well go all the way, if I have fixed colored sound, it is just as good to color the light as well ..
)It will probably end up with a neutral amplifier. An amplifier that are linear with inaudibled distorted sound. Which can drive speakers without clipping, with sensible negative feedback (damping factor). You can still color the sound with an EQ, if you feel like it. I suspect that will be the end of my hifi Odysseus' journey.
However, just speakers are for me another thing where I thought to put the gunpowder. I really need to think about that. Which sensible speakers should I invest in, ie. The amplifiers in the picture are bought used. If I feel like it, I can definitely sell them. I will not win any money on them. On the other hand, I will not lose that much either. It also does not matter. I mostly do hifi now because it's fun.
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This is the root of evil.
You must identify criteria for your own better sound and then try to solve this multiparametric quiz (genres, LF extension, required spl, room size and placement, waf issues) within budget constraints.
We don't know even your use scenario, so what can we assume?
Also, it's good to keep in mind that price/performance ratio is non-linear on anything but basic consumer goods and industrial/commercial equipment. Marketing controlling it for long time.
So, just forget about price as quality indicator of hi-fi equipment unless you are absolutely sure that basic performance metrics are really good and price is not ridiculously low.
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DanielT
Major Contributor
- Thread Starter
- #28
No, of course there is no 100% correlation between sound and price. Maybe not even 50%, what do I know. It's best to see my question from a general perspective and start from that.
The crux for me to describe what kind of sound I want out of my hifi system is more of the kind that I have not tried so many different solutions.
I can describe my ideal as well like it should sound big at the same time as the speakers "disappear" when I listen. Yes, I know it sounds fuzzy when I try to concretize it. I will probably have to think about it further and listen to a few different hifi solutions.
Hifi fairs, for example, although it is fun to talk to like-minded people and look at different solutions, it is that "fair jazz" is the only thing that is played. Music that makes no demands on the solution. Music like Steely Dan. In rooms with often awful acoustics. So the actual listening and evaluation of sounds at fairs does not give me much in any case.
Note. Steely Dan is not to be considered Jazz, not pure Jazz in any case. By the way, I like Steely Dan.
The crux for me to describe what kind of sound I want out of my hifi system is more of the kind that I have not tried so many different solutions.
I can describe my ideal as well like it should sound big at the same time as the speakers "disappear" when I listen. Yes, I know it sounds fuzzy when I try to concretize it. I will probably have to think about it further and listen to a few different hifi solutions.
Hifi fairs, for example, although it is fun to talk to like-minded people and look at different solutions, it is that "fair jazz" is the only thing that is played. Music that makes no demands on the solution. Music like Steely Dan. In rooms with often awful acoustics. So the actual listening and evaluation of sounds at fairs does not give me much in any case.
Note. Steely Dan is not to be considered Jazz, not pure Jazz in any case. By the way, I like Steely Dan.
This conversation is getting complicated ...
I'm trying to say that there's no optimal solution without clear requirements.
For example - if you have small children, it's often better to narrow down possible speakers to on-wall/in-wall + "antivandal" subwoofer (woofer to floor).
If you need mean SPL from speakers like 95 Db+, then you need to look for higher sensitivity.
If you need good bass from small/medium speakers without subwoofer, you'll have to accept lower sensitivity and pump some power in.
And so on.
There's no generalizations that will make your exact use case "best bang for buck". Also, we don't know what sound quality do you really need (it's really painful question for typical audiophile) and what trade-off is acceptable, including all social constraints (there are JBL 705 for sale due to "I've opened the box and wife said no").
All these requirements must be evaluated and then there will be chance that community will offer something really useful.
For nearfield I'd recommend to think about Neumann KH120+KH750DSP+MA1 kit.
For really big sound in big room (concert-like SPL) best bang for buck idea is active PA setup (see JBL 835 review) with powerful DRC like Trinnov or at least Dirac Live through MiniDSP. Something big like JTR Speakers will also work well, but they are inherently more expensive with crossovers and huge power amps.
Anything in between can be done with "standard" hi-fi speakers, but still price/performance optimization needs requirements and constraints.
Also, every power amp with reasonable price is a set of compromises, so high powered ones usually work not-so-good at really low power, and so on. Due to this fact, required SPL is the main parameter that must be known if you go classic "passive speakers+amp" way.
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DanielT
Major Contributor
- Thread Starter
- #30
I am happy to receive tips and advice. Neumann seems to be an interesting brand. New acquaintance for me. Thanks for the tip.
The problem is that I do not really know what to specify. Do not really know what to cream out for good sound a hifi system. High SPL to get a headroom is good. I suspect that as long as I have a system with low distortion, straight frequency response where the amplifier is able to keep the base in control, which does not clipp then I will be satisfied and happy (what more could you want?) Only remains to think about what type of speaker fits my listening room, and the room acoustics.
I also think I fix UMIK-1 and miniDSP.
One or more subwoofers ... absolutely. I thought I would build them myself, based on a proven DIY solution with a well-known driver, for example. :
Peerless by Tymphany XXLS-P835017 12
https://www.soundimports.eu/en/peerless-by-tymphany-xxls-p835017.html
That together with active crossover. I already have amplifiers for them:
the t.amp E-800
2x 500 W at 4 Ohm, 2x 350 W at 8 Ohm, 1 x 1000W bridged at 8 Ohm
"There is probably purpose and meaning in our journey
but it is the pathway there, which is worth our while."
Karin Boye
Edit:
Big a..s sound,, high spl, with power, rock-solid abyss depth bass. That kind of sound I'm interested in. Can compromise on the finesse to get it. Also have no problems at all with loading a pair of speakers like the ones in the picture in my listening room. I doubt they will come to justice in his small, for them, listening room. Mr. DIY claims the opposite. Well, he has to disprove that. We shall see.
The problem is that I do not really know what to specify. Do not really know what to cream out for good sound a hifi system. High SPL to get a headroom is good. I suspect that as long as I have a system with low distortion, straight frequency response where the amplifier is able to keep the base in control, which does not clipp then I will be satisfied and happy (what more could you want?) Only remains to think about what type of speaker fits my listening room, and the room acoustics.
I also think I fix UMIK-1 and miniDSP.
One or more subwoofers ... absolutely. I thought I would build them myself, based on a proven DIY solution with a well-known driver, for example. :
Peerless by Tymphany XXLS-P835017 12
https://www.soundimports.eu/en/peerless-by-tymphany-xxls-p835017.html
That together with active crossover. I already have amplifiers for them:
the t.amp E-800
2x 500 W at 4 Ohm, 2x 350 W at 8 Ohm, 1 x 1000W bridged at 8 Ohm
"There is probably purpose and meaning in our journey
but it is the pathway there, which is worth our while."
Karin Boye
Edit:
Big a..s sound,, high spl, with power, rock-solid abyss depth bass. That kind of sound I'm interested in. Can compromise on the finesse to get it. Also have no problems at all with loading a pair of speakers like the ones in the picture in my listening room. I doubt they will come to justice in his small, for them, listening room. Mr. DIY claims the opposite. Well, he has to disprove that. We shall see.
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AnalogSteph
Major Contributor
For starters, listening distance, room size, roughly how the room is furnished )which determines how reflective it is etc.), what kind of music you listen to at what kind of levels, and approximate budget.
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DanielT
Major Contributor
- Thread Starter
- #32
Mostly I listen to jazz, rock, acoustic music, folk music. Everything except classical music. Mostly rock and blues.
At the moment I am probing the terrain. I will be moving within the next few months. However, I do not yet know how my new living room will be designed, or its size.
What I will do, however, is to design the new living room into a more or less dedicated listening room in connection with moving in. I will start from fixing sensible acoustic conditions. I can, for example, lay a thick carpet over the entire floor, furnish based on partly sound-wise best reproduction. On the one hand, it should still be a living room, so it should also be functional with ordinary furniture, sofa, armchairs, bookcases, cabinets, etc.
In other words. I will return to the issue of appropriate hifi. before the move, I thought I would read on and learn more about how this with room acoustics works.
At the moment I am probing the terrain. I will be moving within the next few months. However, I do not yet know how my new living room will be designed, or its size.
What I will do, however, is to design the new living room into a more or less dedicated listening room in connection with moving in. I will start from fixing sensible acoustic conditions. I can, for example, lay a thick carpet over the entire floor, furnish based on partly sound-wise best reproduction. On the one hand, it should still be a living room, so it should also be functional with ordinary furniture, sofa, armchairs, bookcases, cabinets, etc.
In other words. I will return to the issue of appropriate hifi. before the move, I thought I would read on and learn more about how this with room acoustics works.
AnalogSteph
Major Contributor
Having furniture is generally a good thing, as it provides diffusion and absorption. The worst interior design is what I would call "architect's dream" - bare walls, huge glass panes, tiled or other acoustically hard floor. Make the room roughly cubic and the acoustic disaster is perfect. Well, you could still have a hardwood floor with extra resonances thrown in (the bane of realtime vinyl playback).
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DanielT
Major Contributor
- Thread Starter
- #34
Thanks for the tip!
For my part, I am tired of the bare, bright, white style of furnishing rooms. So for my own part to fill the living room with various furniture. bookcases and so on paired with lots of different colors.
Something similar to the attached picture. Maybe that room was a little too much on the other side of the scale, but still.
For my part, I am tired of the bare, bright, white style of furnishing rooms. So for my own part to fill the living room with various furniture. bookcases and so on paired with lots of different colors.
Something similar to the attached picture. Maybe that room was a little too much on the other side of the scale, but still.
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