Most affordable reference quality 2-channel system that would last awhile?

[CinDyment]

If you don't spend some money on room treatment, nothing you get will be "reference".

 

[ADU]

What is "reference quality" sound?

I will let you decide for yourself what that means.

What it means to me though is a system that delivers very neutral and accurate results at my normal listening levels, with minimal distortion and decent extension in both the bass and treble. I think some people also like to use the word "fidelity" to describe this. But I am not as well-acquainted or comfortable with that word. So I'm less sure about that.

This of course begs the question of what is "neutral" and "accurate". So I'll defer to my earlier suggestion of just using your best judgment on that. If you don't think that reference quality sound needs to be neutral or accurate though, then these qualities may not matter so much.

There may be other mitigating factors that need to be considered in your suggestions on this as well (such as the difference between open and closed headphones, and whether they are EQ'd or not, to give just a couple simple examples).

 

[ADU]

If you don't spend some money on room treatment, nothing you get will be "reference".

If you believe this is the case, then suggest the most affordable solution that you feel can reliably fit the above criteria.

 

[Willem]

In my view such a system should also be modern and convenient. So my first suggestion would be a Sonos AMP and a pair of Elac DBR62s, for a total of $1500 or 1300 euros. If budget is really tight I would go for a Yamaha AS301, a CCA, and a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 220s. In the Netherlands the latter come on the market from time to time for ridiculously low prices. I recently bought a pair for 139 euros, incl tax and delivery. So total system price would be about 550 euros. Of course, if a bigger budget is allowed better sound is achievable.

 

[CinDyment]

If you believe this is the case, then suggest the most affordable solution that you feel can reliably fit the above criteria.

I will pass. It's just a silly thread at this point, especially with your reply to mine.

I don't know your room, you won't define a budget or room size or anything really. I could just says D&D 8C, $4000 to GIK, $2-4K on subs and be done with it. It is as meaningful as any other answer. The only real quality variables are speakers and acoustics, and there is no perfection in 2 channel audio, just a balance of trade-offs. A couple thousand in electronics is pretty much perfect. You could learn DSP to tailor for preference.

 

[Jinjuku]

If you believe this is the case, then suggest the most affordable solution that you feel can reliably fit the above criteria.

ASR in general tries not to deal in 'belief' or 'faith' systems.

I have to ask: What are your intentions?

 

[Jinjuku]

If you believe this is the case, then suggest the most affordable solution that you feel can reliably fit the above criteria.

If you have a compromised room you can't spend your way out of it on speakers and electronics. Listen to some of Michael Lavorgna's or Ted Denny's YT videos in their listening space. Even over crappy speakers you can hear how untreated their rooms are and they have an insane amount of expense that I'm pretty sure my $1300 setup in my treated room will outperform.

 

[TheBatsEar]

I have to ask: What are your intentions?

Evil ones, i'm sure of it.


Here is my attempt:

1. Source with digital output
2. MiniDSP Flex RCA with Dirac + UMIK
3. Audiophonics NC252MP based RCA stereo power amp
4. Purify woofer based DIY speaker, something like the Directiva
5. SVS SB-1000 subwoofer

This would be what i would get if i didn't have anything right now. Should be 2500€ or so.

I think the Purify woofers are the bees knees and should lower distortion by a lot, compared to commercial speakers at multiple times the cost. They are the star of the show. The rest is just good stuff.

On top of that, a bit of room treatment, a carpet here, a diffuser there.

 

[TurtlePaul]

This thread is silly.

For what I would consider a low budget and for nearfield listening, get a pair of Genelec 8020d and get 3.5 mm to XLR cables to hook up to a macbook or PC. $1,100 total.

However, what you consider budget may be higher and state of the art performance may include sub 40 hz bass performance at high SPL.

In that case, boy what a good value the Revel F208 is which you should be able to negotiate down the $4500 from a dealer. I would power this with a Hypex nc502 amp from Buckeye which you can get for $650 and as a source use a MiniDSP Flex $625 (balanced with UMIK-1) with the included UMIK to equalize. Rounding out with a couple of boxes of absorbtion panels from Monoprice, an acoustic under-carpet pad and cables. Absolute reference sound for the low low price of ~$6k.

 

[ADU]

ASR in general tries not to deal in 'belief' or 'faith' systems.

I have to ask: What are your intentions?

Here is the original thread and post which inspired this topic, in case that may be of some help, Jinjuku...

What relative price level of equipment do you identify with?

We might as a group benefit from doing a survey to determine the distribution of members by their interest in audio equipment by price class. Or alternatively a survey to determine the most they have spent or would spend on one audio product (speakers would be in terms of price per pair). When...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I think one of the great values of ASR is identifying equipment with a high performance/price ratio. Finding that a $10k speaker doesn't perform well is less interesting to me than finding a $400 speaker that is stellar....an interesting exercise might be to determine the lowest cost system that is indistinguishable from the best system at any cost....

I added the boldface above.

 

[ADU]

I will pass. It's just a silly thread at this point, especially with your reply to mine.

This thread is silly.

It may be a little silly in some people's minds. I wouldn't totally disagree with that. But I'd still like to hear people's opinions on it, and think I'm not the only one interested in this. So thank you both for at least making the attempt to try to answer it.

 

[whazzup]

I will let you decide for yourself what that means.

What it means to me though is a system that delivers very neutral and accurate results at my normal listening levels, with minimal distortion and decent extension in both the bass and treble. I think some people also like to use the word "fidelity" to describe this. But I am not as well-accounted or comfortable with that word. So I'm less sure about that.

This of course begs the question of what is "neutral" and "accurate". So I'll defer to my earlier suggestion of just using your best judgment on that. If you don't think that reference quality sound needs to be neutral or accurate though, then these qualities may not matter so much.

There may be other mitigating factors that need to be considered in your suggestions on this as well (such as the difference between open and closed headphones, for example).

No mention of room size? That's a pretty critical piece of information. And are you watching movies frequently and want good 10-30Hz performance?

For example, if you're talking about a desktop setup for a small room, the Klipsch Promedia 2.1 is a pretty self contained setup. There's a boost in the 2-4kHz region, and a steep roll off beyond 40Hz. I made some basic in-room measurements and compared it to a JBL A130 + sub setup as well.

Klipsch Promedia 2.1 THX review / measurements / thoughts

Yes, they have been reviewed to death, but as one of the reigning 2.1 PC speaker solutions, always wondered how they sound and measured in my room, so I recently acquired a used pair. Speakers were measured in my room, which is a typical HDB, roughly ~2m x ~3m, study room. Satellites were away...

forums.hardwarezone.com.sg

Klipsch in green (I think the bass knob's at 50%, can't remember), A130 + sub in teal

Or are you looking for something for a much larger room / hall?

 

[TurtlePaul]

I think my $6k attempt at absolute reference for minimum budget was good (F208, nc502, MiniDSP Flex/UMIK, absorbtion). However, I would imagine that for certain people with certain material (EDM, that one scene in Blackhawk down) you would need to use the other two outputs on the MiniDSP to do multi-sub with some HSU VTF-15H. At $1k each, this raises the total system cost to $7-10k depending how many subs from 1-4.

 

[ADU]

No mention of room size? That's a pretty critical piece of information. And are you watching movies frequently and want good 10-30Hz performance?

For example, if you're talking about a desktop setup for a small room, the Klipsch Promedia 2.1 is a pretty self contained setup. There's a boost in the 2-4kHz region, and a steep roll off beyond 40Hz. I made some basic in-room measurements and compared it to a JBL A130 + sub setup as well.

Klipsch Promedia 2.1 THX review / measurements / thoughts

Yes, they have been reviewed to death, but as one of the reigning 2.1 PC speaker solutions, always wondered how they sound and measured in my room, so I recently acquired a used pair. Speakers were measured in my room, which is a typical HDB, roughly ~2m x ~3m, study room. Satellites were away...

forums.hardwarezone.com.sg

Klipsch in green (I think the bass knob's at 50%, can't remember), A130 + sub in teal

Or are you looking for something for a much larger room / hall?

For the in-room system, I'd be looking for something for a small to average-sized living room, with fairly average reflectance. If you want to suggest something for a different kind of setup though, that's ok too, whazzup.

 

[ZolaIII]

@Willem let it be at least Yamaha R-N402D + Warfadale Pro/Force 2180 if you can find them.
@ADU that whose a hypothetical question.

 

[sdiver68]

I suspect a lot of answers will be biased towards what people own, because they chose them for this very reason.

With that in mind, lowest possible cost, probably something like the Kali IN-8 V2 for a pair of speakers.

If going passive, with great bass and a very neutral yet detailed sound, Buchardt S400 MKII. If you prefer something a little warmer, go for the MKI. Both of these represent some of the best you can get around the $2k USD mark.

Stepping up and away from low cost, I would look into JTR 3-way speakers with the coaxial compression drivers. Sure, there are other incremental improvements in between these two, but why go to the trouble of changing speakers for incremental improvements? Go big or go home.

And pair subwoofers with everything.

Or, get a really good set of IEMs and save thousands. Or get both so you can have your reference sound on the go and that bigger experience when you get home.

Bias towards what they own. I always get a chuckle out of that because for knowledgeable and well researched buyers, what they own was biased towards what reviewed and measured well.

 

[sdiver68]

I think my $6k attempt at absolute reference for minimum budget was good (F208, nc502, MiniDSP Flex/UMIK, absorbtion). However, I would imagine that for certain people with certain material (EDM, that one scene in Blackhawk down) you would need to use the other two outputs on the MiniDSP to do multi-sub with some HSU VTF-15H. At $1k each, this raises the total system cost to $7-10k depending how many subs from 1-4.

In which case you ditch the 208 and go for the 206, saving $1-1.5k in the process.

 

[Davywhizz]

I'm putting together a compact system for our guest room. OK it's for me too, when I can't use the hifi downstairs. So far I have some Meze 99 Classics and a Topping EX5 DAC/headphone amp with Bluetooth. I've been streaming from my phone using LDAC but think I'll go for a better source, maybe the latest Bluesound Node streamer, plus some favourite high res albums on a memory stick in the back. I'm looking for alternatives if anyone has ideas. Rather than stack the devices, and have to look for ones that can do that, I bought a simple PC monitor riser in wood but asked for it to be cut to a narrower width, with room for the DAC underneath and a Node, or whatever, on top.

 

[TurtlePaul]

In which case you ditch the 208 and go for the 206, saving $1-1.5k in the process.

That is an interesting point. Near the original price, would it be better to have the F208 or have the F206 with dual (stereo?) subs? I don't know. I imagine the F208 has less distortion from 80-150 hz, which would be nice (F208 is ~1% distortion at 80 hz in Amir's test @ >90 dB). However, the subs let you take that octave from 30 hz - 60 hz out of the hands of the mains. Are there Klipple spins and distortion tests of the F206?

Part of the difference would be that the F208 starts being somewhat directional below 200 hz, while the F206 is probably omnidirectional up higher. I don't know that this would matter as much in a systems which I outlined with equalization "fixing" the mid-bass transition zone.

Of course, the subs also give you lower bass, perhaps even into the teens. With most material that doesn't mean anything, but when a piece asks for sub 30 hz, you will certainly know if you have subs or not.

 

[ADU]

That is an interesting point. Near the original price, would it be better to have the F208 or have the F206 with dual (stereo?) subs? I don't know. I imagine the F208 has less distortion from 80-150 hz, which would be nice (F208 is ~1% distortion at 80 hz in Amir's test @ >90 dB). However, the subs let you take that octave from 30 hz - 60 hz out of the hands of the mains. Are there Klipple spins and distortion tests of the F206?

Part of the difference would be that the F208 starts being somewhat directional below 200 hz, while the F206 is probably omnidirectional up higher. I don't know that this would matter as much in a systems which I outlined with equalization "fixing" the mid-bass transition zone.

Of course, the subs also give you lower bass, perhaps even into the teens. With most material that doesn't mean anything, but when a piece asks for sub 30 hz, you will certainly know if you have subs or not.

Fwiw, these are Revel's own spinoramas of the F206 and 208...

A collection of loudspeakers measurements

pierreaubert.github.io

A collection of loudspeakers measurements

pierreaubert.github.io

I don't see an independent measurement of the 206 on Pierre's current list.

For those who aren't familiar with what a spinorama is, here is a good (but somewhat lengthy) explanation by one of its originators, Dr. Floyd Toole...