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Morrow SP3 Review (Speaker Cable)

BluesDaddy

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I appreciate the review, but there are some major flaws in the methodology.

In this review, only measurements were taken. Many of which, like common frequency response and input to output distortions, will indeed measure pretty much the same through any cable.

The distortions we are talking about on the website are those that are not measurable with test equipment. They are rather distortions that affect soundstage, musicality, realism, etc… the musical presentation. Another example is the 3D roundness of the images within the sound field.
These things, and distortions of these elements cannot be measured. Rather, they are heard and experienced through a proper stereo system, using ones ears.

Here is an example… When attending an audiophile trade show, one walks by rooms where stereo systems are playing. For the most part, as you approach the room, you know that it is indeed a stereo system. Now, when you are in the lobby, which also contains stereos, you hear something different, you know that it is live music. As you round the corner, you discover that it indeed is! If you measured a stereo playing the same thing, compared to the live event, they will measure the same, yet sound so much different. This is the “distortion” I am speaking of. Why is the recording of the live event sound so different from the actual live event? It is a form of distortion.

There are many things that are yet understood, how the ear/ brain works in deciphering the music. Cables do indeed sound different, even though they “measure” the same. Why this is, no one knows, and it is not placebo!

Somehow, with our cable design, the difference between recording and the live event becomes less. What you experience is that you are more “there”, the glass is less cloudy, the experience more real. There is greater musicality and realism, even though the measurements are the same.

I propose to the reviewer that he test all cable reviews in a real, properly set up stereo system. He might find that they “measure” the same, but when inserted into a stereo, the cables do indeed sound different. One will then experience the before unmeasurable distortions by using the best and final test, one’s ears. Test equipment measurements are fine, but listening is the real experience and is really what matters.
You'll need to demonstrate through proper ABX DBT to a statistical significance that such things are audible. Until then, all the science, including psychoacoustics, says this is just the result of a number of non-system related factors including placebo effect, confirmation bias, and increased concentration on listening FOR differences in sighted listening.
 

thefsb

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From an audio perspective it's not worth it, aesthetically possibly.
I agree. My point was that I think it deserves a piggy bank panther. I understand the headless and armless panther as representing "broken", which I don't think describes this item.
 

Chrispy

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I agree. My point was that I think it deserves a piggy bank panther. I understand the headless and armless panther as representing "broken", which I don't think describes this item.
Broken claims deserved it IMO.
 

Apollon

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to build an object, you first need a study, specifications and detailed technical specifications. I guess you did it all. Then, rigurous tests to validate being said to be an object in correlation with the specifications.
This brings us back to a scientific process before and after the construction of the said object. I think you know, that's the way it works in the industry.
 

thefsb

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The distortions we are talking about on the website are those that are not measurable with test equipment.
That is an interesting kind of distortion.

Is the difference quantitative? i.e. is current test equipment insufficiently sensitive to detect a distortion that human hearing is sensitive enough to detect?

Or is it qualitiative? i.e. is the distortion something that test equipment could not possibly detect?
 

AdamG

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I appreciate the review, but there are some major flaws in the methodology.

In this review, only measurements were taken. Many of which, like common frequency response and input to output distortions, will indeed measure pretty much the same through any cable.

The distortions we are talking about on the website are those that are not measurable with test equipment. They are rather distortions that affect soundstage, musicality, realism, etc… the musical presentation. Another example is the 3D roundness of the images within the sound field.
These things, and distortions of these elements cannot be measured. Rather, they are heard and experienced through a proper stereo system, using ones ears.

Here is an example… When attending an audiophile trade show, one walks by rooms where stereo systems are playing. For the most part, as you approach the room, you know that it is indeed a stereo system. Now, when you are in the lobby, which also contains stereos, you hear something different, you know that it is live music. As you round the corner, you discover that it indeed is! If you measured a stereo playing the same thing, compared to the live event, they will measure the same, yet sound so much different. This is the “distortion” I am speaking of. Why is the recording of the live event sound so different from the actual live event? It is a form of distortion.

There are many things that are yet understood, how the ear/ brain works in deciphering the music. Cables do indeed sound different, even though they “measure” the same. Why this is, no one knows, and it is not placebo!

Somehow, with our cable design, the difference between recording and the live event becomes less. What you experience is that you are more “there”, the glass is less cloudy, the experience more real. There is greater musicality and realism, even though the measurements are the same.

I propose to the reviewer that he test all cable reviews in a real, properly set up stereo system. He might find that they “measure” the same, but when inserted into a stereo, the cables do indeed sound different. One will then experience the before unmeasurable distortions by using the best and final test, one’s ears. Test equipment measurements are fine, but listening is the real experience and is really what matters.
Welcome Aboard @Mike Morrow. If I am reading your post correctly you represent a Vendor or Manufacturer, is that correct?

If so please send a PM to @amirm and register with him as such.
 

SimpleTheater

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I appreciate the review, but there are some major flaws in the methodology.

In this review, only measurements were taken. Many of which, like common frequency response and input to output distortions, will indeed measure pretty much the same through any cable.

The distortions we are talking about on the website are those that are not measurable with test equipment. They are rather distortions that affect soundstage, musicality, realism, etc… the musical presentation. Another example is the 3D roundness of the images within the sound field.
These things, and distortions of these elements cannot be measured. Rather, they are heard and experienced through a proper stereo system, using ones ears.

Here is an example… When attending an audiophile trade show, one walks by rooms where stereo systems are playing. For the most part, as you approach the room, you know that it is indeed a stereo system. Now, when you are in the lobby, which also contains stereos, you hear something different, you know that it is live music. As you round the corner, you discover that it indeed is! If you measured a stereo playing the same thing, compared to the live event, they will measure the same, yet sound so much different. This is the “distortion” I am speaking of. Why is the recording of the live event sound so different from the actual live event? It is a form of distortion.

There are many things that are yet understood, how the ear/ brain works in deciphering the music. Cables do indeed sound different, even though they “measure” the same. Why this is, no one knows, and it is not placebo!

Somehow, with our cable design, the difference between recording and the live event becomes less. What you experience is that you are more “there”, the glass is less cloudy, the experience more real. There is greater musicality and realism, even though the measurements are the same.

I propose to the reviewer that he test all cable reviews in a real, properly set up stereo system. He might find that they “measure” the same, but when inserted into a stereo, the cables do indeed sound different. One will then experience the before unmeasurable distortions by using the best and final test, one’s ears. Test equipment measurements are fine, but listening is the real experience and is really what matters.
I'm using most of this on my website. It's cable marketing at its best.
 

SIY

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Welcome Aboard @Mike Morrow. If I am reading your post correctly you represent a Vendor or Manufacturer, is that correct?

If so please send a PM to @amirm and register with him as such.
These wires are made by Mike’s company.
 

AdamG

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These wires are made by Mike’s company.
Thank you Sir. I failed to make the connection to the cables that Amir just tested. Appreciate the memory help.
 

MrPeabody

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I appreciate the review, but there are some major flaws in the methodology.

In this review, only measurements were taken. Many of which, like common frequency response and input to output distortions, will indeed measure pretty much the same through any cable.

The distortions we are talking about on the website are those that are not measurable with test equipment. They are rather distortions that affect soundstage, musicality, realism, etc… the musical presentation. Another example is the 3D roundness of the images within the sound field.
These things, and distortions of these elements cannot be measured. Rather, they are heard and experienced through a proper stereo system, using ones ears.

Here is an example… When attending an audiophile trade show, one walks by rooms where stereo systems are playing. For the most part, as you approach the room, you know that it is indeed a stereo system. Now, when you are in the lobby, which also contains stereos, you hear something different, you know that it is live music. As you round the corner, you discover that it indeed is! If you measured a stereo playing the same thing, compared to the live event, they will measure the same, yet sound so much different. This is the “distortion” I am speaking of. Why is the recording of the live event sound so different from the actual live event? It is a form of distortion.

There are many things that are yet understood, how the ear/ brain works in deciphering the music. Cables do indeed sound different, even though they “measure” the same. Why this is, no one knows, and it is not placebo!

Somehow, with our cable design, the difference between recording and the live event becomes less. What you experience is that you are more “there”, the glass is less cloudy, the experience more real. There is greater musicality and realism, even though the measurements are the same.

I propose to the reviewer that he test all cable reviews in a real, properly set up stereo system. He might find that they “measure” the same, but when inserted into a stereo, the cables do indeed sound different. One will then experience the before unmeasurable distortions by using the best and final test, one’s ears. Test equipment measurements are fine, but listening is the real experience and is really what matters.

Mr. Morrow -

Your claim is that your cable sounds different from ordinary cables such as the ugly one that Amir cobbled together. If this is true, and if you truly know it to be true, there will have been a proper ABX double-blind test at some point, which proved that people truly can hear the difference between your cable and others. If you have not done this, then you cannot be certain that people can hear the difference. If you have actually done this, then you will have some documentation of that exercise. The documentation will reveal when and where it was done, how many listeners took part, etc. If you had actually done this and you had the documentation, you would already have shared that documentation with us, instead of writing the post that you wrote. It is thus apparent that this test has never been performed and that you do not have any genuine reason to claim that your cables sound different from ordinary cables such as the one that Amir cobbled together.

Your suggestion that there would be an audible difference that wouldn't be measurable doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. A speaker cable's performance is fully defined its resistance, capacitance and inductance, the three components of impedance. For any cable, if each of these three parameters is a sufficiently small fraction of the speaker's value for the same parameter, there is no possible way for the cable to have any affect on the sound. The only possible way for the cable to have any affect on the sound, when the cable is used to connect a speaker to an amplifier or other signal source, is if the cable appreciably affects the voltage at the speaker terminals, and if this occurs in a way that isn't constant with respect to frequency. If cable loss is less than a tenth of a decibel throughout the audible spectrum, the cable cannot possibly affect the sound of the speaker. And if this is the case for each of two different cables, then they necessarily sound exactly the same, because neither of them has any sound at all.

The only way that I can see that anyone would have any fair objection with the way Amir did those measurements would be if they thought that the particular speaker that he used is atypically high in one of the impedance parameters, inductance for example, such the benefit of the lower value of that parameter for the preferred cable was masked or obscured. Other than this, I don't see how there is any legitimate criticism with what he did. Perhaps you know of some other speaker that will reveal a difference between your cable and that other much uglier cable. If you do, then you should simply measure that impedance parameter for that speaker at frequency of your choosing, then measure that same impedance parameter for your cable and for off-the-shelf 16-gauge lamp cord. This is all you need in order to do the simple calculation that will reveal the theoretical loss in the cable, for each of the two cables. You should then be able to easily convince us that the calculated loss will be significant for the ugly cable but not for your cable.

The claim that your cable is better than the ugly cable is implicitly predicated on the claim that there is some flaw or shortcoming with the ugly cable. If you have not demonstrated and proven that the flaw with the other cable is real, then how would it make sense to claim that your cable overcomes that flaw? It is manifest that this wouldn't make sense. You have to start by measuring the three impedance parameters for a length of 16-gauge lamp wire and showing that the inductance or the capacitance or the resistance is great enough to have an audible effect when used with some speaker. If it happens that the audible effect of the ugly cable only exists with certain speakers, then you need to identify which speakers these are.

Instead of doing any of these things that you needed to have done, you appeared here and claimed in essence that your cables have magical properties by which the sound of the speaker connected to an amplifier with your cable will sound more "live" or real. Implicitly the improvement must be in comparison to some other cables, but you said nothing about this. You might as well have said that regardless of what other cable is used (and regardless of what speaker is used), this improvement will be apparent when the other cable, whatever it is, is replaced with your cable. How could you know this, without having listened to every other speaker cable that is available? It is indeed a magical property that your cable evidently possesses.
 

izeek

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The $20 was an example of a shovel cost, not cable. And I suppose it depends on what you might call "nice", but there is LOTS of room between $20 and $150. I don't recall if Amir ever mentioned total length, but a quick perusal of Amazon shows several cables of OFC terminated with banana plugs at under $50 for a 6' pair. For $50, I could buy high quality banana plugs and some 14 gauge wire from Monoprice (or Amazon) and construct multiple pairs that would be "nice". Don't recall how much wire "pants" are, but not a whole lot, could squeeze in to that $50. Now, if you're set on adding TechFlex over it, that would be more, but not so much.
I'm using most of this on my website. It's cable marketing at its best.[/QUO
$650. per. inch. no.
 

SIY

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amirm

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amirm

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The distortions we are talking about on the website are those that are not measurable with test equipment. They are rather distortions that affect soundstage, musicality, realism, etc… the musical presentation.
Those things are not called "distortions." They may be changes but don't get called distortions. A distortion is a variation from input to output, usually in a non-linear matter. I tested for this and there is no non-linear distortion to speak of in the cable. Yours or the crusty generic one.

We know of everything you wrote by the way. Problem is that you have no way of demonstrating any of it to be true. If I made such claims about filtered water, i.e. makes you look better, increase sex drive, grow hair, etc. you would ask for proof. But when it comes to audio, you want us to believe what you and your fellow sellers sell.

You likely tested your cable against another and observed all of that. We know this can and does happen. Problem is that you didn't just use your ears. You used full knowledge of what cable is what and allowed your brain to interfere with pure evaluation of sound waves.

I don't know why people in your camp don't believe in the power of your brain. You hear a few notes of a violin and you can instantly imagine a full picture of it in your brain. You can imagine it being played in front of you. Yet none of that is real.

There are now talent and cooking shows that are conducted blind on TV. Why do you not follow the same? What is so special about audio that should be exempt from this?

Try it. Have a loved one swap your speaker cable with another a few times and see if you get it right every time. You don't have to tell us the outcome. Do it for yourself. Get some enlightenment.

Remember again: everything you say we know. We have heard and even experienced it. The difference between us is one thing: we take the time to verify if the effect is real and you do not.
 

Ken1951

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I appreciate the review, but there are some major flaws in the methodology.

In this review, only measurements were taken. Many of which, like common frequency response and input to output distortions, will indeed measure pretty much the same through any cable.

The distortions we are talking about on the website are those that are not measurable with test equipment. They are rather distortions that affect soundstage, musicality, realism, etc… the musical presentation. Another example is the 3D roundness of the images within the sound field.
These things, and distortions of these elements cannot be measured. Rather, they are heard and experienced through a proper stereo system, using ones ears.

Here is an example… When attending an audiophile trade show, one walks by rooms where stereo systems are playing. For the most part, as you approach the room, you know that it is indeed a stereo system. Now, when you are in the lobby, which also contains stereos, you hear something different, you know that it is live music. As you round the corner, you discover that it indeed is! If you measured a stereo playing the same thing, compared to the live event, they will measure the same, yet sound so much different. This is the “distortion” I am speaking of. Why is the recording of the live event sound so different from the actual live event? It is a form of distortion.

There are many things that are yet understood, how the ear/ brain works in deciphering the music. Cables do indeed sound different, even though they “measure” the same. Why this is, no one knows, and it is not placebo!

Somehow, with our cable design, the difference between recording and the live event becomes less. What you experience is that you are more “there”, the glass is less cloudy, the experience more real. There is greater musicality and realism, even though the measurements are the same.

I propose to the reviewer that he test all cable reviews in a real, properly set up stereo system. He might find that they “measure” the same, but when inserted into a stereo, the cables do indeed sound different. One will then experience the before unmeasurable distortions by using the best and final test, one’s ears. Test equipment measurements are fine, but listening is the real experience and is really what matters.

I realize I am an uneducated noob to ASR, but even with that, I do believe that I'm entitled to respond with:

"Uh-Huh"
 

Beave

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I like to think of it this way:

A cable can't "improve" on the sound (signal) coming from the amp.

It can only degrade it.

Since even cheap cables typically don't degrade that signal in any audible ways, it's logically impossible for another cable to sound better.
 

ahofer

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I appreciate the review, but there are some major flaws in the methodology.

In this review, only measurements were taken. Many of which, like common frequency response and input to output distortions, will indeed measure pretty much the same through any cable.

The distortions we are talking about on the website are those that are not measurable with test equipment. They are rather distortions that affect soundstage, musicality, realism, etc… the musical presentation. Another example is the 3D roundness of the images within the sound field.
These things, and distortions of these elements cannot be measured. Rather, they are heard and experienced through a proper stereo system, using ones ears.

Here is an example… When attending an audiophile trade show, one walks by rooms where stereo systems are playing. For the most part, as you approach the room, you know that it is indeed a stereo system. Now, when you are in the lobby, which also contains stereos, you hear something different, you know that it is live music. As you round the corner, you discover that it indeed is! If you measured a stereo playing the same thing, compared to the live event, they will measure the same, yet sound so much different. This is the “distortion” I am speaking of. Why is the recording of the live event sound so different from the actual live event? It is a form of distortion.

There are many things that are yet understood, how the ear/ brain works in deciphering the music. Cables do indeed sound different, even though they “measure” the same. Why this is, no one knows, and it is not placebo!

Somehow, with our cable design, the difference between recording and the live event becomes less. What you experience is that you are more “there”, the glass is less cloudy, the experience more real. There is greater musicality and realism, even though the measurements are the same.

I propose to the reviewer that he test all cable reviews in a real, properly set up stereo system. He might find that they “measure” the same, but when inserted into a stereo, the cables do indeed sound different. One will then experience the before unmeasurable distortions by using the best and final test, one’s ears. Test equipment measurements are fine, but listening is the real experience and is really what matters.

I think you are full of it, and what’s more, I think you know you are full of it.
 

Beave

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I think you are full of it, and what’s more, I think you know you are full of it.

I'm not so sure about that. He's a lifelong tinkerer in electronics, but he has no academic training in engineering or science (no college degree). He supposedly has perfect pitch hearing, so he's pretty confident in his hearing ability. But he hasn't learned the importance of controls in testing/comparisons. He almost certainly does it all sighted and thinks his hearing abilities are sufficient to overcome any biases he might have (he's wrong there, of course).
 

MrPeabody

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I like to think of it this way:

A cable can't "improve" on the sound (signal) coming from the amp.

It can only degrade it.

Since even cheap cables typically don't degrade that signal in any audible ways, it's logically impossible for another cable to sound better.

That's what I call hitting the nail on the head.

The entire specialist speaker cable business should have been founded on some commonly known shortcoming of ordinary 16-gauge lamp cord. Why can't people who advocate spending stacks of cash on exorbitantly expensive speaker cable understand that it can't make sense without there being a well-known problem with 16-gauge lamp cord? They seem not to understand this, because if they did, they would be much more assertive in making claims about the distortion effects of 16-gauge lamp cord.
 
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