More Channels for AV processors

[Dj7675]

Those companies have some upgrade/expansion options but daisy-chaining would require some unusual proprietary software. Not generally relevant.

I am guessing the reference is to this thread on AVSForum.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/beyond-7-1-4-multi-avr-set-up-for-immersive-audio.2321145/

Seems to be quite a number of people doing it, but it appears to be quite complicated and could come with some issues of delays, and the added channels not having been EQ’d, etc.

 

[sarumbear]

I'm first of all a Music lover, HT is only my second option. Fun to watch a movie with family or friends or may be a tennis match on my mega screen, I can finally see the tennis ball life size!
Music is my priority, Movies are only second choice. I would never listen to music through an AV pre (anyone, any price) Most of them can only do a decent job with music at best.

My system allows me to completely bypass the AV pre for music. I play music keeping it digital up to the only and last conversion D/A to my speakers.
My music source is a PC with Jriver or spotify from there I go digital direct to my amps that accept digital imput, they also do xover, eq, and then go direct to my biamped JBL.
The 6 Crown Itech 5000 HD accept also balanced analog input from my AV pre for cinema only.

The JBL 4350 and 4345 are working wonders for music especially considering that all my room is fully treated for a perfect sound reproduction ,
all the ceiling, and the walls. I listen to music in stereo with four biamped JBL's,





My vintage jbl collection

Similar here. I am however lucky enough to go one step further. I have separate rooms for music listening and home theatre. Two speakers in one and 18 on the other. It also allows me to avoid having a big reflector in between the stereo speakers (the TV) and treat the rooms independently.

 

[discus96]

I haven't red this thread yet, but in my case four channels are working great ensuring you listen from the center of those.
EQ, xover and and delays can be easily implemented thanks to the BSS processor inside my crowns, in addition this is done in digital domain before the final D/A conversion. No issues at all. Great detail, great impact, great sound

 

[Chrispy]

Love these guys who can't taint their precious ears with something thru an av receiver for "music". The horrors.

 

[sarumbear]

Love these guys who can't taint their precious ears with something thru an av receiver for "music". The horrors.

Why patronise and belittle? Haven’t anyone told you that it is rude?

 

[Sal1950]

Today is 9 or even 11 Channels and may be more...... Is this run for always more channels really needed?

Needed no, but if you got the money and room, it's a why not deal.
AFAIK 7.1 is the most discreet channel recordings being done but depending on room size there are many up-sampling options.
The good news is that Atmos, Auro, Sony3D are scalable and can offer ever more options.

Music is my priority, Movies are only second choice. I would never listen to music through an AV pre (anyone, any price) Most of them can only do a decent job with music at best.

^^^^ That's just silly
I only watch 1 or 2 movies a month and on occasion fire up my rig for something on TV. But I listen intently to music on a 3-4 hour average every night.
I played around for many years with dedicated 2 and multich rigs or configurations but learned there's no SQ devil in AV gear. If you insist that you lose something, that's your decision and error. On the other hand you give up the oppertunity to upsample 2 ch in many wonderful ways. I know that Floyd Toole and many others of HiFi merit feel the same, so I am in good company.
YMMV

 

[polmuaddib]

I would never listen to music through an AV pre (anyone, any price) Most of them can only do a decent job with music at best.

My system allows me to completely bypass the AV pre for music.

I have HT Bypass capable stereo preamp and was convinced for some time that it was superior to AV preamp. After some testing, turns out that, even though my preamp has better SINAD then my AVR, both sound the same.
My advice is, relax and enjoy the music. Preferably, multichannel

 

[discus96]

Very good I'm not arguing at all, if you love av gear and music though those good for you! I simply hear too much of a loss and go a different route. I love you the same and respect your opinion as much as mine.

I simply would never spend K dollars on AV gear, the very minimum 5.2 or 7.2 is more than enough for my av taste, my question here is :

The new encoded sound tracks of movies will still be downmixed down to my old 7,2 MC12 Lexicon or I'll be forced to buy a new AV pre?

 

[rccarguy]

Very good I'm not arguing at all, if you love av gear and music though those good for you! I simply hear too much of a loss and go a different route. I love you the same and respect your opinion as much as mine.

I simply would never spend K dollars on AV gear, the very minimum 5.2 or 7.2 is more than enough for my av taste, my question here is :

The new encoded sound tracks of movies will still be downmixed down to my old 7,2 MC12 Lexicon or I'll be forced to buy a new AV pre?

Will be downmixed, but if you select DTS mix the DTS core is 1.4mb sec so pretty good.

Or use 5.1/7.1 input on your Lexicon with a BD player with HD decoder and you'll get HD audio to 5.1/7.1 so you're mostly there.

 

[discus96]

what about Netflix movies through an apple 4k TV? what kind of encoding do they supply?

 

[Sal1950]

I simply would never spend K dollars on AV gear, the very minimum 5.2 or 7.2 is more than enough for my av taste

That may just be why your HT gear doesn't sound good with music.
Open your wallet to the same level as your 2ch and you might hear something different.

Better yet, dump both rigs and dump all the money into a world class multich setup.
Thats what I did 10 years ago

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I am guessing the reference is to this thread on AVSForum.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/beyond-7-1-4-multi-avr-set-up-for-immersive-audio.2321145/

Seems to be quite a number of people doing it, but it appears to be quite complicated and could come with some issues of delays, and the added channels not having been EQ’d, etc.

This seems to be a lash-up to power additional speaker channels but not necessarily with discrete and appropriate content. If the first prepro can only extract X.y.Z channels by design, it cannot send anything discrete/appropriate beyond that to another.

 

[Sancus]

Today is 9 or even 11 Channels and may be more...... Is this run for always more channels really needed?

I mean, 5.2.2 is 9 channels already.

Beyond that...how big is your room and how many rows of seating? Much of the reason for high channel counts is because they're needed to provide a consistent experience for multi-row seating and some people have home theatres with that.

If you are watching content with Atmos available(which is on pretty much every film and big budget Netflix show nowadays) you need at least 4.1.2 or 6.1(center not required, but beneficial) for most AVRs to actually use the Atmos object data tracks, and there is a big, obvious difference in the quality of Atmos mixing relative to most 5.1 mixes. The Atmos ones are far more immersive.

I went from 5.1 to 5.1.2 and then 5.1.4 and I've heard 7.2.4 systems and a 9.2.6 one once. Adding the basic 2 height channels is very significant. Adding 4 does help differentiate the placement of height effects, but honestly, I mostly did it to enable Auro3D... The additional channels past that are nice in larger rooms but not really that significant IMO. I would add rears if I had space for them, but that's it.

Multiple subwoofers also improve bass significantly especially across multiple seats, personally I think one should use 2 subwoofers as a baseline and many rooms will benefit from 3 or 4. This even applies to stereo.

 

[sarumbear]

I mean, 5.2.2 is 9 channels already.

Very true. Think of this:

Left, Centre, Right
Surround sides left & right
Surround rears left & right
Atmos above left & right
Subwoofer

You are already at 10 channels (7.2.1) If you want to use DTS then you also need front left & right (which can be shared with Atmos) and to better interface with the room add another subwoofer and you reach 13 channels (7.4.2). You see how quick it escalates.

Multiple subwoofers also improve bass significantly especially across multiple seats, personally I think one should use 2 subwoofers as a baseline and many rooms will benefit from 3 or 4. This even applies to stereo.

I use four subwoofers as suggested by Dr. Toole. It helps equalising the room.

 

[Chrispy]

Why patronise and belittle? Haven’t anyone told you that it is rude?

It's rude to say avrs aren't capable of music, too....depends on your point of view or degree of audiophilia you've been stricken with.

 

[sarumbear]

It's rude to say avrs aren't capable of music, too....depends on your point of view or degree of audiophilia you've been stricken with.

Expressing an opinion is not rude. However, calling someone who is passionate about their hobby as “stricken” is.

There is no need for rudeness in any public forum. Manners doesn’t cost.

 

[Chrispy]

Expressing an opinion is not rude. However, calling someone who is passionate about their hobby as “stricken” is.

There is no need for rudeness in any public forum. Manners doesn’t cost.

I took your comment as somewhat offensive (as well as ignorant). So I'll just leave it there.

 

[jhaider]

IMO outside of running wires - neither trivial nor cheap, obviously, given the multiple trades involved, and structured cabling doesn't seem to enhance the resale value of a home either - the level of setup complexity has gone down substantially with the current crop of processors compared to the early days of surround. The time from first turn-on to listen-for-enjoyment for a system with 14 processed channels (7 bed, 4 height, 3 sub) is about 2.5-3 hours for a very listenable result with Dirac Live+Dirac Bass Control or RoomPerfect. Audyssey can get you a lot of the way there in similar time if you have the iOS app, but will only handle 2 subs and IMO not as elegantly as DLBC or RP does. You also will need to manually fix the factory target curve for every channel by removing the midrange dip and drawing in a bass curve that more closely approximates the bass response when you place a legit full-range speaker in that room.

I have found the additional 4 ceiling speakers - ours are in the ceiling, but placed and functioning as heights per Auro-3D guidelines - beneficial for both two-channel music (upmixed with Auro) and the native Atmos tracks in Apple Music (dropped Tidal because Apple's immersive catalog exceeds theirs). Movies sound great too, but that isn't my personal focus or a great interest. Others' opinions may vary, but I would do it again. Or rather for a third time, as I did not consider omitting the height layer in the current home.

 

[Sal1950]

Please gents, lets keep it civil.
Thanks

 

[Chrispy]

Please gents, lets keep it civil.
Thanks

I was just riffing in a different than usual "audiophile" direction, sorry. The "music" crowd is somewhat indecipherable.