Moonriver2, Jcally AP98 Measurements.

[eyecent]

Around September, AliExpress found AP90(60$),AP98(100$) that look the same as Moon River 2(161$),
and I purchased them. In this post I will post the results of the RMAA of Moon River 2, AP98 and additionally AP90.

The biggest difference between Moon River 2 and AP98 is that when connected, gain setting is different. High gain is the default for Moon River 2, and low gain is the default for AP98.

On 4.4 (24/192)

I also upload the RMAA results of AP90 with the same appearance and different chipsets used. It is a great USB Dongle DAC built using AKM 4493.

As a mobile headphone amplifier and DAC, Jcally's AP90, 98 are all recommended products. I am using 4.4 to 2XLR cable as a DAC.

Thx you.

 

[JSmith]

Thanks for posting these results @eyecent, although may I ask why make them A-weighted measurements and not unweighted?


JSmith

 

[eyecent]

Thanks for posting these results @eyecent, although may I ask why make them A-weighted measurements and not unweighted?


JSmith

I just installed and ran RMAA6.4.5.

 

[alekksander]

@eyecent
thanks for posting this. any suspision over tanchjim space eqvivalent product?

 

[WondrousHippo]

Not a huge fan of them uh, 'cloning' the Moonriver2 design, but it's absolutely wild that sub-$100 gets you instrument-grade performance in something that can fit in your pocket and with balanced cables can drive all but a few headphones.

 

[eyecent]

@eyecent
thanks for posting this. any suspision over tanchjim space eqvivalent product?

I think AP10 is probably the same product. So I ordered both this Black Friday.

 

[eyecent]

Not a huge fan of them uh, 'cloning' the Moonriver2 design, but it's absolutely wild that sub-$100 gets you instrument-grade performance in something that can fit in your pocket and with balanced cables can drive all but a few headphones.

I think Jcally is doing OEM for most companies.
The AP7, which was the same as the 7Hz product, is recognized as a 7Hz product in my laptop.

While I discovered that Korean earphone companies' Dongle Dac or C to C cables were the same, I bought them to solve my curiosity.

 

[WondrousHippo]

I think Jcally is doing OEM for most companies.
The AP7, which was the same as the 7Hz product, is recognized as a 7Hz product in my laptop.

While I discovered that Korean earphone companies' Dongle Dac or C to C cables were the same, I bought them to solve my curiosity.

Interesting! This OEM is doing some bang-up work, that’s for sure.

 

[alekksander]

it's common practice along Chinese market as far as i know. company XY designs and produces product and sells it to other companies with price adjusted to the "quality" of used components. not betting my head on it, but if You look around it's hard not to notice this pattern. long live free market!

 

[Matias]

OEM again, just like it was with Hidisz S8 and TempoTec Sonata HD Pro. Edit 2: NOT the same.

Thanks for the measurements through.

Edit: I just noticed they requested a patent for the APPEARANCE design!

 

[charleski]

If it’s at all possible, I’d be very interested if you could check the characteristic of the USB connection on these things. This will be either adaptive or asynchronous and can easily be checked with this program from Thesycon:

Thesycon - USB Descriptor Dumper Tool

USB descriptor dumper is a Windows utility that displays the USB descriptors of any USB device.

www.thesycon.de

If it’s asynchronous you’ll see the following line in an endpoint descriptor block:

bmAttributes = 0x5 (USB_ENDPOINT_TYPE_ASYNCHRONOUS)

I know that the TempoTec Sonata/Hidzis S8 uses an adaptive connection, and suspect that this is a common feature of dongles, which probably don’t have space for the clock circuitry required.

 

[eyecent]

Endpoint Descriptor:
------------------------------
0x07 bLength
0x05 bDescriptorType
0x03 bEndpointAddress (OUT endpoint 3)
0x05 bmAttributes (Transfer: Isochronous / Synch: Asynchronous / Usage: Data)


------------------------------------

0x07 bLength
0x05 bDescriptorType
0x03 bEndpointAddress (OUT endpoint 3)
0x05 bmAttributes (Transfer: Isochronous / Synch: Asynchronous / Usage: Data)

 

[eyecent]

If it’s at all possible, I’d be very interested if you could check the characteristic of the USB connection on these things. This will be either adaptive or asynchronous and can easily be checked with this program from Thesycon:

Thesycon - USB Descriptor Dumper Tool

USB descriptor dumper is a Windows utility that displays the USB descriptors of any USB device.

www.thesycon.de

If it’s asynchronous you’ll see the following line in an endpoint descriptor block:

bmAttributes = 0x5 (USB_ENDPOINT_TYPE_ASYNCHRONOUS)

I know that the TempoTec Sonata/Hidzis S8 uses an adaptive connection, and suspect that this is a common feature of dongles, which probably don’t have space for the clock circuitry required.

Endpoint Descriptor:
------------------------------
0x07 bLength
0x05 bDescriptorType
0x05 bEndpointAddress (OUT endpoint 5)
0x03 bmAttributes (Transfer: Interrupt / Synch: None / Usage: Data)


----------------------------

Endpoint Descriptor:
------------------------------
0x07 bLength
0x05 bDescriptorType
0x86 bEndpointAddress (IN endpoint 6)
0x03 bmAttributes (Transfer: Interrupt / Synch: None / Usage: Data)

 

[GeekyBastard]

They actually sell AP98 at about 70$ brand new off taobao (on other online market in China), not only it's cheap, it's disturbingly cheap...

 

[charleski]

View attachment 246063View attachment 246064

Endpoint Descriptor:
------------------------------
0x07 bLength
0x05 bDescriptorType
0x03 bEndpointAddress (OUT endpoint 3)
0x05 bmAttributes (Transfer: Isochronous / Synch: Asynchronous / Usage: Data)


------------------------------------

0x07 bLength
0x05 bDescriptorType
0x03 bEndpointAddress (OUT endpoint 3)
0x05 bmAttributes (Transfer: Isochronous / Synch: Asynchronous / Usage: Data)

Thanks very much. That is very interesting indeed. For comparison, this is what a dongle with adaptive transfers looks like:

Endpoint Descriptor (Audio/MIDI 1.0):
------------------------------
0x09    bLength
0x05    bDescriptorType
0x03    bEndpointAddress  (OUT endpoint 3)
0x09    bmAttributes      (Transfer: Isochronous / Synch: Adaptive / Usage: Data)

[Edit] Looking at the pictures: this is the result you get for the 7Hz 71?

 

[eyecent]

Thanks very much. That is very interesting indeed. For comparison, this is what a dongle with adaptive transfers looks like:

Endpoint Descriptor (Audio/MIDI 1.0):
------------------------------
0x09    bLength
0x05    bDescriptorType
0x03    bEndpointAddress  (OUT endpoint 3)
0x09    bmAttributes      (Transfer: Isochronous / Synch: Adaptive / Usage: Data)

[Edit] Looking at the pictures: this is the result you get for the 7Hz 71?

yes. 1 7hz 02, and ap7
2.post moomrivrr3 and ap98

 

[charleski]

yes. 1 7hz 02, and ap7
2.post moomrivrr3 and ap98

Synch: None is an odd result, it's possible you were looking at the wrong endpoint in the list, since it looks like some of them are unused for a simple output dongle. I've attached the full descriptor dump for an old Fiio K1 dongle, where the audio output descriptors only appear towards the end.

Anyway, I've ordered an AP90 since AliX's sale price seems pretty good, so can test it further next month. Thanks for spotting this and letting us know.

I'm currently using a TempoTec Sonata HD, which sounds great, but occasionally stutters, which is quite annoying. The stuttering largely goes away if I upsample all the way to 384kHz, which makes me think this might be due to the adaptive transfer. No idea what the USB receiver is in the TempoTec (marking says 0512 EFAN with no logo), but the CT7601PR in the AP90 (and 98) will hopefully be more robust.

 

[Jimbob54]

Synch: None is an odd result, it's possible you were looking at the wrong endpoint in the list, since it looks like some of them are unused for a simple output dongle. I've attached the full descriptor dump for an old Fiio K1 dongle, where the audio output descriptors only appear towards the end.

Anyway, I've ordered an AP90 since AliX's sale price seems pretty good, so can test it further next month. Thanks for spotting this and letting us know.

I'm currently using a TempoTec Sonata HD, which sounds great, but occasionally stutters, which is quite annoying. The stuttering largely goes away if I upsample all the way to 384kHz, which makes me think this might be due to the adaptive transfer. No idea what the USB receiver is in the TempoTec (marking says 0512 EFAN with no logo), but the CT7601PR in the AP90 (and 98) will hopefully be more robust.

Be good to know what output levels you can get from the ap90. I have one coming. Im sure there will be ample low noise and distortion for iem.

 

[eyecent]

Be good to know what output levels you can get from the ap90. I have one coming. Im sure there will be ample low noise and distortion for iem.

All the contents I posted measured 4.4 terminals of 4v.

 

[GeekyBastard]

The design's similar, but internal's not the same at all, the jcally one cheaped out on several important chips (missing 2 opamps?) and connection ports, basically a worse clone of Moonriver 2.

The Moondrop's CEO commented: More and more scammers these days...

【图片】回复：真正的（开）【hifi交易吧】_百度贴吧

真正的（开）..其实这么一看主控，电源管理这方面，差的会很多。打个简单的比方，一个是手机电直接到解码然后出来。一个是手机电先管理分到解码部分和放大两个部分。

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