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Moondrop Blessing 2 Review (IEM)

Rate this IEM:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 2 0.9%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 15 6.8%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 99 44.6%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 106 47.7%

  • Total voters
    222

Garrincha

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People actually would like to see the cheapest gems that are great for any price..
With all due respect, in the below $100 or even below 50$ or $20 bracket there are so many options and also the risk is so low of buying one. Aren´t we here for high fidelity and the utmost possible? Now that for example the $200 Topping Dx3Pro + delivers SOTA performance what headphone amplification and digital to analog conversion are concerned, which is an incredible achievement, I would like to know where we stand with IEMs in that respect.
 
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Blorg

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The Samsung Buds+ have almost identical tuning. Personally, I think it's too much V-shaped sound. And the bass doesn't sound natural to me. But you know, different people have different tastes :)

I have the Buds+ as well as it happens, purely looking at the tuning yes the tuning of the bass is very similar (and I think the bass tuning is the best thing about the Buds+). The actual sound of the Buds+ vs the Variations though, they really don't sound comparable. The Buds+ has a peculiar unnatural sounding treble timbre that just sounds "off". It also comes across as shouty to me in a way the Variations doesn't, despite the similarities in the graphs. The Variations sounds much more natural and doesn't grate in the way the Buds+ does. (This is relative- the Buds+ is still a good TWS.)

I have the Buds2 as well, they have the same bass tuning but fix the weird treble timbre. They introduce a new 8kHz treble peak but it's far less offensive to my ear.

Many would want more mid-bass for it to qualify as "V-shaped", while there is a LOT of sub-bass in all of the Buds+, Buds2 and Variations, there is a big cut going into the mid-bass, which to most people makes them sound somewhat "lean" or "clean". Look at something like the Fiio FD5, before EQ that is V shaped, with gobs of mid-bass (much too boomy). The Variations couldn't be further away from that.

The Buds Pro deviate more from Harman but are IMO the best out of those three Samsung TWS. They have more mid-bass but not excessive amounts, don't have the unnatural treble timbre of the Buds+ and don't have the 8kHz spike of the Buds2. More mid-bass is perfect for something you are going to use outdoors in noisy environments (I believe Harman's own research also mentions this), at home in a quiet environment I tend to prefer straight Harman with the mid-bass cut.

Harman is a Samsung subsidiary so no surprise Samsung use their research, and produce probably the best tuned TWS available.
 

dib

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Chu comes to the rescue, reviewed by Crinnacle.

Crinacle checks Frequency responses of many many IEMs and Headphones but not the other aspects that are so detailed here in ASR.
 

Blorg

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With all due respect, in the below $100 or even below 50$ or $20 bracket there are so many options and also the risk is so low of buying one. Aren´t we here for high fidelity and the utmost possible? Now that for example the $200 Topping Dx3Pro + delivers SOTA performance, which is an incredible achievement, what headphone amplification and DAC is concerned, I would like to know where we stand with IEMs in that respect.
There are a lot of options, many of which are rubbish. The Chu is not, it's actually remarkably good. It would be very good if it was priced at $100. There isn't a direct correlation between price and sound quality in this hobby. I'd be very interested in a test on the Chu, don't think it can't be high fidelity just because it's $20.
 

Garrincha

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I have the Buds+ as well as it happens, purely looking at the tuning yes the tuning of the bass is very similar (and I think the bass tuning is the best thing about the Buds+). The actual sound of the Buds+ vs the Variations though, they really don't sound comparable. The Buds+ has a peculiar unnatural sounding treble timbre that just sounds "off". It also comes across as shouty to me in a way the Variations doesn't, despite the similarities in the graphs. The Variations sounds much more natural and doesn't grate in the way the Buds+ does. (This is relative- the Buds+ is still a good TWS.)
How come? That sounds quite hard to believe to me. Almost identical FR and the sound differs widely? That begs an explanation.
 

Fregly

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I imagine the Chu has less distortion. Would eq taming the treble a touch not give you the same or better than the Blessing for almost no money? Not sure what the expensive iem is actually providing. Same could be done with the Kato I suspect.
 

Blorg

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How come? That sounds quite hard to believe to me. Almost identical FR and the sound differs widely? That begs an explanation.
The major issue with the Buds+ is the treble timbre, and you can see significant variation there in the graph. There's also more wobblyness in the upper mids and lower treble on the Buds+, in the 2.5-8kHz region. Whether that fully explains it, I don't know. I doubt it does, as the Buds+ is not very wobbly there and I have other IEMs that are at least if not more wobbly in that region that I don't find sound off in the same way. I know in that region, I do tend to find stuff that is very jagged offputting. There are usually three peaks around 2.5kHz-3, 5-6kHz, 8kHz. The last being coupler resonance, I think the other two are IEM cavity resonance? On IEMs that have this (and many do) the second one is typically double the first, so if the first is 2.5 second will be 5, if the first is 3, second will be 6. Crinacle aims for 8kHz for the coupler resonance, so that is set by the person doing the measurement. You see this triple peak pattern on a lot of IEMs, what varies is the size of the peaks, small wobbling doesn't seem so offensive but if they are large (example here: KZ ZSN Pro X) I think that may be what I find "shouty" or "harsh" in that region.

Moondrop seems to be particularly good at smoothing out this region.

1654181937425.png


Maybe it's what happens after 8kHz on the Buds+?

But I don't think you can look at two headphones that have broadly similar smoothed FR graphs and conclude that they sound identical. Bear in mind as well that one of them is Bluetooth using SBC (at a very low bitpool, for some reason Samsung sets this low) or AAC, the other I'm listening to lossless or LDAC. But if this is part of it, it's the specific implementation in the Buds+ as I don't get it with other BT stuff (including the other two Samsung TWS I have).

Have you heard the Buds+ or the Variations?
 

Garrincha

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There are a lot of options, many of which are rubbish. The Chu is not, it's actually remarkably good. It would be very good if it was priced at $100. There isn't a direct correlation between price and sound quality in this hobby. I'd be very interested in a test on the Chu, don't think it can't be high fidelity just because it's $20.
Yes, to a certain extent it is true that there is no proportional relashionship beweeten price and high fidelity, not cross brand and often not even inner-brand. But the Chu is $20, it sound good, maybe even very good. You even get the new spring tips. Buy it, no risk. I am still much more interested in how quite expensive and highly acclaimed IEMS perform. If it is as with DACS, I have seen measurements of $10,000 to $17,000 gear (Chord Dave and dCS Bartok) that really let me rest assured that it would be an absurd waste of money buying one over a $100-$500 Sota device available. How is the situation with IEMs?
 

Garrincha

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But I don't think you can look at two headphones that have broadly similar smoothed FR graphs and conclude that they sound identical.
So what does the FR tell then??? I strongly think Olive/Toole beg to differ. Maybe there may be differences in imaging, layering, soundstage, transients and the like, but overall sound characteristics ought to be the same.
 

RHO

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So what does the FR tell then??? I strongly think Olive/Toole beg to differ. Maybe there may be differences in imaging, layering, soundstage, transients and the like, but overall sound characteristics ought to be the same.
I think the problem with IEMs is that you wear them differently (insertion depth) from model to model en the differences vary from person to person and have bigger effects on the FR at the eardrum than with OE headphones.
In a coupler you can align the different IEM models so they have the same insertion. This is helpful to standardize the measurements and compare models.
If you would be able to insert every IEM you try in exactly the same way, every time you use them, you come very close to experiencing the differences that the measurements show.
 

MayaTlab

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So what does the FR tell then??? I strongly think Olive/Toole beg to differ. Maybe there may be differences in imaging, layering, soundstage, transients and the like, but overall sound characteristics ought to be the same.

To a certain degree (and the question of what degree exactly is it isn't settled), two headphones that measure identically on an ear simulator may not measure identically in / on your ears, whether that's because of sample variation, or coupling issues (which for IEMs are particularly difficult to assess given the dearth of publicly available real ear measurements).
As already said by RHO insertion depth for a start may introduce variability, but there is also the question of leakage, and I get the feeling that just like with over-ears the introduction of a feedback mechanism may complicate things even further.
Besides, Harman's research process doesn't have the precision / resolution needed to determine target preferences to a degree that's below minimum threshold of audibility, example here with some observations : https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...ew-rode-nth-100-headphones.32296/post-1169984
 

Blorg

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Also, graphs tend to be smoothed to a certain degree and not reliable after ~7kHz. There can be quite a bit of variance between graphs depending on the person taking the measurement and their fixture.

FR graphs tell a lot, I think they give a very good impression of the general tonality of a headphone or IEM. I can look at the curve and have a very good idea of what the broad tonality is going to be, whether it's going to be bassy, or not, or shouty, or dark, or bright.

If you have an IEM that you know already has a similar design, from the same company, or whatever, like the Moondrop Aria and Starfield, and they also measure essentially identically on FR, in that circumstance, it is a very good indication that they are going to sound essentially the same (and they do).

Beyond that though, we could say a pair of IEMs are broadly similar in that they are both "Harman neutral" or both "V shaped" or whatever but still what look like relatively subtle differences on a graph can actually be significant in terms of audibility.

You can test this yourself with what you have, just EQ it all to the same target, it's relatively easy to do this using AutoEQ either directly or using the EQ tab on Crinacle or Squig.Link. If the graphs were entirely correct and that was all that mattered, everything you have would sound identical once EQed to target. But I don't think they will.
 

Garrincha

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You can test this yourself with what you have, just EQ it all to the same target, it's relatively easy to do this using AutoEQ either directly or using the EQ tab on Crinacle or Squig.Link. If the graphs were entirely correct and that was all that mattered, everything you have would sound identical once EQed to target. But I don't think they will.
All things being equal (insertion depth, tips etc.) I see no reason why they should sound differently. You don´t think so. Any argument besides pure assertion? Are we again at the "DAC sound" level of discussion?
 

RHO

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All things being equal (insertion depth, tips etc.) I see no reason why they should sound differently. You don´t think so. Any argument besides pure assertion? Are we again at the "DAC sound" level of discussion?
I think he clearly says that when all things are equal they sound the same. (Starfield vs Aria: very similar in construction and measured FR) But very different IEMs (construction wise) can sound quite different in a human ear even when they measure the same in a measuring coupler. This is because both situations are very different.
If you could get the same FR at the eardrum I would say that both would essentially sound the same.
 

Blorg

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"All things being equal" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. I already said, if two IEMs measure exactly the same - like the Moondrop Starfield and Aria - they probably will sound identical. Particularly if they are coming from the same company and share the exact same shell and very similar drivers. And those two do.
1654185036642.png

But this is not identical:
1654184986372.png

I would agree that the "overall tonality" is similar. It is. But they don't sound the same. And there are obvious differences in the graph... you seem to just be handwaving these away as insignificant.

Another example would be the Moondrop Blessing 2 Dusk and Crinacle's KZ collaboration, the Zex Pro / CRN. They do have very similar overall tonality. They were tuned by the exact same guy to the exact same target. But they don't sound identical. The CRN has a treble timbre problem the B2D doesn't have, and that's evident in the graph. I'm not sure though that you could say that's the only difference between them either.

1654185377750.png


I don't hear differences between DACs unless they are very poor or have an audible noise floor. But you can see in these IEM FR graphs there are 5dB+ variances in places, and you seem to just be handwaving that away as insignificant because the curves are broadly similar. Any DAC that is measured here that gets a recommendation has variances in the small fractions of a dB across the entire frequency spectrum. Amir I believe stopped putting frequency response graphs in DAC reviews because they were all razor flat across the entire spectrum, the graph was identical in every review.

These are far bigger differences than that.
 

MayaTlab

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All things being equal (insertion depth, tips etc.) I see no reason why they should sound differently. You don´t think so. Any argument besides pure assertion? Are we again at the "DAC sound" level of discussion?

The lack of a constant transfer function for IEMs between 5128 and 711 measurements should already provide some hints that even at the measurement level things aren't settled.
For over-ears it's already been quite largely demonstrated that two headphones measuring the same on an ear simulator may not on someone's head, particularly at lower frequencies where the literature / data is quite abundant (ex : https://www.grasacoustics.com/files...mprovedMeasurementofLeakageEffects_Harman.pdf)
 

Garrincha

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"All things being equal" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. I already said, if two IEMs measure exactly the same - like the Moondrop Starfield and Aria - they probably will sound identical. Particularly if they are coming from the same company and share the exact same shell and very similar drivers. And those two do.
View attachment 210400
But this is not identical:
View attachment 210399
I would agree that the "overall tonality" is similar. It is. But they don't sound the same. And there are obvious differences in the graph... you seem to just be handwaving these away as insignificant.

Another example would be the Moondrop Blessing 2 Dusk and Crinacle's KZ collaboration, the Zex Pro / CRN. They do have very similar overall tonality. They were tuned by the exact same guy to the exact same target. But they don't sound identical. The CRN has a treble timbre problem the B2D doesn't have, and that's evident in the graph. I'm not sure though that you could say that's the only difference between them either.

View attachment 210401

I don't hear differences between DACs unless they are very poor or have an audible noise floor. But you can see in these IEM FR graphs there are 5dB+ variances in places, and you seem to just be handwaving that away as insignificant because the curves are broadly similar. Any DAC that is measured here that gets a recommendation has variances in the small fractions of a dB across the entire frequency spectrum. Amir I believe stopped putting frequency response graphs in DAC reviews because they were all razor flat across the entire spectrum, the graph was identical in every review.

These are far bigger differences than that.
Sure, I know with IEMs (and to a lesser extend headphones) there are many more uncertainities involved as between to DACS, individual fit, reproducibility of measurements, different measurement rigs, HRTF and so on, but still there is no room for two IEM with a very similar FR to sound vastly different.
 

Blorg

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Sure, I know with IEMs (and to a lesser extend headphones) there are many more uncertainities involved as between to DACS, individual fit, reproducibility of measurements, different measurement rigs, HRTF and so on, but still there is no room for two IEM with a very similar FR to sound vastly different.
If they have a similar FR they will have a broadly similar tonality. If you want to consider that to be "not sounding vastly different", then sure, they won't sound "vastly" different in that sense. You can group headphones or IEMs by FR and categorize them as "Harman neutral", "V shaped", etc.

All the examples compared above DO have broadly similar tonality. But that doesn't mean they "sound the same" in the sense that I'd be equally happy listening to one or the other, that there is no qualitative difference. Other than the first example, of the Starfield and the Aria- they really do sound the same.

It's not just the uncertainties, there are all the uncertainties, but beyond the uncertainties, looking at the actual graphs, you are just discounting completely significant variances in the graphs, where two IEMs do have broadly similar curve but do have significant variations in places. If you had a DAC with those sort of variances it would be an outright fail, so presumably you must accept that those variances do actually matter and can "sound different" enough to care about it. Otherwise, you'd accept any DAC frequency response variability as long as it was within 5-10dB of flat, if that sort of variance makes no difference to how something sounds. But you wouldn't obviously.
 

Geathchi

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Sure, I know with IEMs (and to a lesser extend headphones) there are many more uncertainities involved as between to DACS, individual fit, reproducibility of measurements, different measurement rigs, HRTF and so on, but still there is no room for two IEM with a very similar FR to sound vastly different.
If two IEMS have identical FR at a given volume, that just means they'll sound identical when playing static tones, just like two displays with identical color accuracy will look identical when displaying static images. FR doesn't contain any information about how accurately and precisely these frequencies change in volume during music playback.
 

Garrincha

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If two IEMS have identical FR at a given volume, that just means they'll sound identical when playing static tones, just like two displays with identical color accuracy will look identical when displaying static images. FR doesn't contain any information about how accurately and precisely these frequencies change in volume during music playback.
Ok granted, what I said before, if IEM 1 has much faster transients than IEM 2 with otherwise identical FR, there would be a difference in the dynamical rendering, but the overall sound characteristics would remain the same. And in the example discussed above, I doubt that there is such a huge dynamical difference resulting in large audible differences, i.e. Moondrop S8 and Variations should sound very much a like, the Galaxy Buds+ might be a bit more sluggish and thus not that resolving.
 
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