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Monoprice THX-365IW Review (In-wall Speaker)

bogart

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Very happy to see a new frontier in categories of speakers measured. As was mentioned earlier, Genelecs can be mounted in wall… but if you read their specs, they are quite prescriptive about the installation conditions. If memory serves me, I think they call for concrete block walls and sealed cavities.

I don’t mind sub-optimal conditions for these tests so long as we get close to representative conditions. Short of a major renovation where I can specify new wall construction, any use I make of these is going to be a make-do retrofit. With that in mind, flawed fixture conditions are likely to mimic my flawed installation conditions. Anyhow the data is informative!

So, I applaud the view into the work in progress, suggestions for improvement, and encourage the embrace of “representative approximate” conditions as good enough for useful data.
 

Denon545

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Great to see in-wall speakers being reviewed. I am doing a home theater build with 3 in wall speakers (LCR) behind an acoustically transparent screen. Having always been a floor standing speaker guy, would it make sense to get in wall speakers that can be aimed? Toe-in is always a big deal on floor standing speakers. Or do these type of speakers work well mounted in wall and pointed straight ahead?
 

B4ICU

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To a pisher, it might seem that way. For the rest of the people, there is plenty of proper information here.

My temporary teacher in elementary school said, "every classroom needs a clown; don't you try to be the one!" So think hard before you throw out an insult with zero content.

Amire
Why do you use this language? ( "To a pisher..." )
It show your ability to accept criticism. Not much.
You might think, when you shave in the morning, and look in the mirror, that you are perfect. Well no one is.

The more you report, the more flaw emerge from the data. I just try to point you with that FB, maybe it will help you to fix them.
The cheerleaders might make you happy, but there is nothing for you to improve.
You can use it or not, it's up to you, but you can not use this kind of language against your readers.
Last time, on another thread here, where you couldn't cope with my say, you blocked me, and then you suggested for me to try a different hobby.
A big say for a guy like you. I'll return you with the same say: I suggested you to try a different profession.
Don't publish reports (criticism on audio equipment) if you can't take some yourself.
Your language against me, is a shame.
 

stevenswall

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Seems like the klippel software should be able to do some rough compensation for infinite baffle with the 3D sound projection mapping.

Genelec sells boxes to mount some of their 8000 series in the wall. Curious if those would sound any better with an "infinite baffle."
 

MediumRare

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Great to see in-wall speakers being reviewed. I am doing a home theater build with 3 in wall speakers (LCR) behind an acoustically transparent screen. Having always been a floor standing speaker guy, would it make sense to get in wall speakers that can be aimed? Toe-in is always a big deal on floor standing speakers. Or do these type of speakers work well mounted in wall and pointed straight ahead?
Amir's review shows these particular speakers have a remarkably even and wide dispersion of, perhaps, 70-80 degrees to each side. Most floorstanding speakers have, at best, 50 degrees horizontal dispersion. So the direct answer to your question is: "Yes, these are designed specifically to be pointed straight ahead and provide a wide range of seating positions with good sound. Standard speakers generally cannot do that."
1624647714934.png
 

USER

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Amire
Why do you use this language? ( "To a pisher..." )
It show your ability to accept criticism. Not much.
You might think, when you shave in the morning, and look in the mirror, that you are perfect. Well no one is.

The more you report, the more flaw emerge from the data. I just try to point you with that FB, maybe it will help you to fix them.
The cheerleaders might make you happy, but there is nothing for you to improve.
You can use it or not, it's up to you, but you can not use this kind of language against your readers.
Last time, on another thread here, where you couldn't cope with my say, you blocked me, and then you suggested for me to try a different hobby.
A big say for a guy like you. I'll return you with the same say: I suggested you to try a different profession.
Don't publish reports (criticism on audio equipment) if you can't take some yourself.
Your language against me, is a shame.

Once again: I love the ignore feature. This dude has absolutely nothing to contribute here. Everything is over his head, and he's committed to his nonsense. Why bother to engage?
 

ROOSKIE

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Amire
Why do you use this language? ( "To a pisher..." )
It show your ability to accept criticism. Not much.
You might think, when you shave in the morning, and look in the mirror, that you are perfect. Well no one is.

The more you report, the more flaw emerge from the data. I just try to point you with that FB, maybe it will help you to fix them.
The cheerleaders might make you happy, but there is nothing for you to improve.
You can use it or not, it's up to you, but you can not use this kind of language against your readers.
Last time, on another thread here, where you couldn't cope with my say, you blocked me, and then you suggested for me to try a different hobby.
A big say for a guy like you. I'll return you with the same say: I suggested you to try a different profession.
Don't publish reports (criticism on audio equipment) if you can't take some yourself.
Your language against me, is a shame.
Dude/dudette,
IMHO you seem to confuse constructive criticism and tolerable back and forth of hashing out a good plan of action with simply complaining. The other thing is that while a "public" forum appears to belong to the public, it doesn't. It is ultimately Amir's personal property that we all get to help create. Within that he has a leeway we all don't, simple as that.
This is something I think many would be wise to consider before posting, that is why I went ahead with this even though my comment is unfortunately not about the review itself.

Now to comment on the review a bit. To reinforce others comments. I am pretty certain that 4 and 5th order distortion is vibration. There is a lot of it and the system is not ported (a common source of such distortion at SPL. It could be the product itself is vibrating, however I do suspect the mounting structure is a likely culprit. Because of the experimental nature, I'd suggest building a few different mounts and retesting this particular speaker in them and hopefully discover a version that is solid and doesn't play a large role in the measurements.
A lot of work I know, however the long term payout could be huge. ???
 

spacevector

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Is the exceptional horizontal radiation pattern seen here (+/-80 degrees) the results of:
  • Deliberate and excellent engineering from Monoprice?
  • A general property of in-wall speakers?
  • A measurement fixture artifact?
  • Or something else?
Thanks for extra effort you put in for this review amirm!
 
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amirm

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Vladimir Filevski

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Is the exceptional horizontal radiation pattern seen here (+/-80 degrees) the results of:
  • Deliberate and excellent engineering from Monoprice?
  • A general property of in-wall speakers?
  • A measurement fixture artifact?
  • Or something else?
Only the first one. Partially.
Small diameter midrange with rather low crossover point at about 500 Hz, with low 1.9 kHz tweeter crossing, ensures wide horizontal dispersion. And high distortion at high volumes.
 

Beershaun

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Ah, let me know if you have the link. I don't think these speakers are standardized though.

I do have a CNC machine so once I have my workshop back together, I can easily cut out custom inserts. This one was done with portable tools and was crude and dirty.

Then again, messing with fixture takes time away from testing other products.
Agreed. Not in the business of creating fixtures for holding speakers. You ideally want a speaker provider to provide the test fixture for the speaker that they used for their own testing and development. Especially since they must have created something to test the speaker with. And if they didn't create one, then I think you know the results of the test already.

While the front/side vertical speakers may be non-standard sizes, I bet there is a relatively small variance in the in-ceiling speaker sizes. Similar to car audio they likely have standard round sizes based on 6" or 8" mid-range with a "co-axial" tweeter. So that may be worth creating your own for. You could even start with the Revel as a benchmark.
https://www.revelspeakers.com/produ...C263-.html?dwvar_C263-_color=Black-US-Current

Here is Joe's youtube video.
He was able to acquire a related enclosure for testing OSD speakers:

The actual test
 

NTK

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I believe to properly measure in-wall speakers, the Klippel NFS baffle measurement option is required. With this option, measurements are taken in 2 concentric hemispheres (instead of cylinders) smaller than the baffle to simulate the half-space.

Klippel Baffle Option.PNG


The zoomed-in view of the sample results plot:
Baffle Option Plot.PNG
 
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amirm

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I agree that sealing the box makes sense for the above reasons and also for consistency.
This creates a lot of complexity for testing. If we are talking air tight, then that will make it impossible to use the same box to test multiple speakers as I won't be able to just swap out the baffle. Speakers themselves also don't come with air tight seal. They just have pressure fit fasteners.
 
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amirm

amirm

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I believe to properly measure in-wall speakers, the Klippel NFS baffle measurement option is required.
I have looked at this a number of times. As I noted, the hardware+software for this option costs 13,000 euros. It is also not clear to me how we can measure full speakers with it as opposed to drivers. It is made for a max (circular) driver size, not tall in-walls like I just measured.

Do we want to make this level of investment here?
 

NTK

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I have looked at this a number of times. As I noted, the hardware+software for this option costs 13,000 euros. It is also not clear to me how we can measure full speakers with it as opposed to drivers. It is made for a max (circular) driver size, not tall in-walls like I just measured.

Do we want to make this level of investment here?
If you ask me, I don't think so. I just believe, without using the option, the standard NFS measurement and analysis aren't very applicable to in-wall speaker.

The other complication I see is the interpretation of the measurement results. With free standing speakers, we have decades of research by Dr Toole and others to correlate measurement data to listener preference (e.g. how speaker directivity affect sound quality). While I believe much of the same also applies to in-walls, I don't think we have nearly the same level of research data to support making solid conclusions.
 

danzilla31

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3 things 1: This is really cool your trying to do this Amir. Theres some reviews on in walls but not many and none with the level of measurements and details your doing. Anything we can do to help I know I'm excited for some of us with home theaters this is a big deal.

2: I remember reading on Monoprices site with questions and reviews they were telling customers you shouldn't build a back box for these as these were designed to be open in the wall they said building a back box would change how the speaker performs. So a sealed box might not be a good idea?

Point 3 is to my fellow forum members I'm really looking for good in ceiling speakers that can keep up with the dynamics of my RBH SV-831R front 3 and RBH SV-661W surrounds. They are very impressive and dynamic. My in ceilings are now the weak link. I really strongly considered these as my in ceiling atmos speakers? Based on they're measurements and info given here do you guys feel these could be used for that application? I thought about bolting 4 more SV-661W on my ceilings but these are much less expensive. Any helpful feedback greatly appreciated

Dan
 
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