"Monitors" vs speakers, Ascend Acoustics HTM-200SE2, and recommendations for very small home office desktop

[Justin8888]

Hi all,

So I am in the process of reworking my entire home office and looking to build a new audio system. For reference, my current system is an FX audio FX1002A and some micca RB42 using my PC DAC. Speakers are at the back corners of my 70" sit/stand desk. The room is a 12' x 7' sun room. Overall, the system is fine for what it is, but I would like to take it to the next level, including some improvements to usability, I/O, a proper headphone amp and DAC, NCx122MP or 252 amp, etc. Anyway...

So I was looking around on spinorama for a pair of bookshelf speakers under $1k for the pair. While looking at the Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 v2 and realizing that they will be ridiculously large on my desk, I came across the HTM-200SE2. The price, measurements, and size caught my attention. Measurements are from Ascend, but from what Ive read they are committed to good technique. $368 for a pair seems like a steal for what you get here. The caveat is that you essentially need a sub to use these. At $368/pair, thats not a problem, and maybe even preferred.

Now these are marketed as "monitors" or mentioned as surrounds/centers. Should this give me pause when thinking about using them in a desktop setup for music enjoyment? Ive been reading up on ASR just long enough to know that sound is sound and any "color" is distortion and if I want to "color" the sound, I should do it through EQ and not just have the speakers do it by design. I am planning to go with a DAC/amp that has PEQ.

Ok, so if thats the case, why can I find almost no discussion about these speakers? I find it hard to believe I've cracked some kind of secret code to unlocking super clean sound for under $1k w/sub ($600 gets a pretty decent powered sub for a small room, something like an SB-1000 Pro). Am I missing something here? Is the lack of discussion simply because these are not mainstream enough? Any drawbacks to this setup I should be aware of? Any other recommendations that would be superior for the price?

HTM-200SE2 MINI-MONITOR PAIR

High Performance Compact Speaker New Klippel NFS optimized version! Utilizing high-resolution, 360-degree measurements from our Klippel NFS, we’ve completely re-engineered the beloved HTM-200SE, delivering significant improvements across every performance category. We’ve also updated the cabinet...

www.ascendacoustics.com

 

[Defi]

Not a fan of this at all and this would keep me from buying them.

 

[Goran-P]

Take a look at the ascend luna v2. I have them, and they are great.. fantastic sound. With a cone woofer = $900. They measure (and look) better than the monitors u r looking at. You can get a decent 8 or 10 inch sub, for <$300. Another one to look at is the iloud mtm mkII, good reviews, search for

Erin reviews iLoud MTM MKII​

 

[kemmler3D]

@Justin8888 your overall approach and mindset here makes total sense, the "catch" as @Defi points out is the directivity is pretty bad on the horizontal, which is considered more important than vertical in most rooms. The on-axis looks okay, but the off-axis has a huge boost in the treble so it's going to be way too bright-sounding in the end. Good suggestions for other stuff from @Goran-P .

You might also look at the JBL 305 or 308p, they're not very expensive new and you can get them really cheaply on FB marketplace where I am...

 

[Justin8888]

Ok, followup question. The titan luna v2 is within $100 of the sierra v2. Would the luna actually sound better in my space? These would be at about 1 ft from the wall, both powered by the same amp, using a sub (or small stereo subs) for either. I can fit either on my desk and the cost difference is negligible. Frequency response is comparable from what I could tell. Could smaller actually be better in this case? Or is bigger still better, all else being equal? Is distortion a bigger concern with the luna?

Luna v2 titan

Sierra v2

 

[Mort]

The titan luna v2 is within $100 of the sierra v2. Would the luna actually sound better in my space? These would be at about 1 ft from the wall, both powered by the same amp, using a sub (or small stereo subs) for each. I can fit both on my desk and the cost difference is negligible. Frequency response is comparable from what I could tell. Could smaller actually be better in this case? Or is bigger still better, all else being equal? Is distortion a bigger concern with the luna?

The woofer is smaller so it will not reproduce bass as loudly, or probably as deeply. That might be an issue, but it's not like the Sierra is a bass-bomb.

The bigger question would be the RAAL tweeter, which helps to provide that wide directivity sound many enjoy, including me. However, sometimes those can be funky nearfield if you get caught in the vertical lobing or you are too close for the two drivers to blend or you are getting too much direct sound and not enough off axis. You'll need to make sure the tweeter is right at your ear level if nearfield and farther back a bit will help. I think they could be good though. Either will be a tremendous upgrade over your existing.

 

[Justin8888]

The woofer is smaller so it will not reproduce bass as loudly, or probably as deeply. That might be an issue, but it's not like the Sierra is a bass-bomb.

The bigger question would be the RAAL tweeter, which helps to provide that wide directivity sound many enjoy, including me. However, sometimes those can be funky nearfield if you get caught in the vertical lobing or you are too close for the two drivers to blend or you are getting too much direct sound and not enough off axis. You'll need to make sure the tweeter is right at your ear level if nearfield and farther back a bit will help. I think they could be good though. Either will be a tremendous upgrade over your existing.

I’ll have sub(s) for bass. What I’m not planning is a HPF for the speakers, and I don’t want distortion. That said, at maybe 1m from the speakers, even at loud volumes, I doubt either would distort much, but I don’t know for sure. But it does bring up the question or how important is that midwoofer in the presence of subs. Given that there’s no real compromise with either (cost-wise, build quality, etc) I’m just down to whichever would sound better.

I sent a message to Dave at ascend hoping he could help me make the choice. One sort of unrelated advantage of picking the sierra is that it’s a more versatile speaker (likely with better resale) if I ever decide to go a different direction. If SQ is the same between them, that may be the difference in picking one over the other.

 

[Mort]

What I’m not planning is a HPF for the speakers, and I don’t want distortion.

So you want to run everything full range? That's gonna get messy I would think.

 

[Chrispy]

As an owner of a variety of Ascend speakers, I would make room for Sierras over the 200s.....for that matter prefer the 170s over the 200s.

 

[Justin8888]

So you want to run everything full range? That's gonna get messy I would think.

Well obviously the subs would not be full range since they have a crossover built in, but I was planning on running the mains full range and letting them roll off naturally. I would set the crossover to roll off based on the speaker I choose (lower if I go with the sierra, higher with the Luna)

I’m open to opinions on this but I’ve read a ton on the debate over whether a HPF for mains is good or bad when running a sub. As of right now, I’m in the camp that letting the mains roll off as the were designed is more advantageous than introducing additional processing.

If after some tweaking I prove myself wrong, so be it. I will make the necessary changes then. But that’s where I’m at today.

 

[Chrispy]

Well obviously the subs would not be full range since they have a crossover built in, but I was planning on running the speakers full range and letting them roll off naturally. I would set the crossover to roll off based on the speaker I choose (lower if I go with the sierra, higher with the Luna)

I’m open to opinions on this but I’ve read a ton on the debate over whether a HPF for fronts is good or bad when running a sub. As of right now, I’m in the camp that letting the fronts roll off as the were designed is more advantageous than introducing additional processing.

If after some tweaking I prove myself wrong, so be it. I will make the necessary changes then. But that’s where I’m at today.

Your subs have an actual crossover or just an lpf?

 

[Mort]

Well obviously the subs would not be full range since they have a crossover built in, but I was planning on running the fronts full range and letting them roll off naturally. I would set the crossover to roll off based on the speaker I choose (lower if I go with the sierra, higher with the Luna)

I’m open to opinions on this but I’ve read a ton on the debate over whether a HPF for fronts is good or bad when running a sub. As of right now, I’m in the camp that letting the fronts roll off as the were designed is more advantageous than introducing additional processing.

If after some tweaking I prove myself wrong, so be it. I will make the necessary changes then. But that’s where I’m at today.

Gotcha. Here you will largely hear to run an HPF for the mains, but of course you should do your own research and test.

 

[Justin8888]

Your subs have an actual crossover or just an lpf?

Crossover from 30-120

 

[Chrispy]

Crossover from 30-120

Really? So how do your speakers benefit from that particularly?

 

[Jiraya369]

Hi all,

So I am in the process of reworking my entire home office and looking to build a new audio system. For reference, my current system is an FX audio FX1002A and some micca RB42 using my PC DAC. Speakers are at the back corners of my 70" sit/stand desk. The room is a 12' x 7' sun room. Overall, the system is fine for what it is, but I would like to take it to the next level, including some improvements to usability, I/O, a proper headphone amp and DAC, NCx122MP or 252 amp, etc. Anyway...

So I was looking around on spinorama for a pair of bookshelf speakers under $1k for the pair. While looking at the Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 v2 and realizing that they will be ridiculously large on my desk, I came across the HTM-200SE2. The price, measurements, and size caught my attention. Measurements are from Ascend, but from what Ive read they are committed to good technique. $368 for a pair seems like a steal for what you get here. The caveat is that you essentially need a sub to use these. At $368/pair, thats not a problem, and maybe even preferred.

Now these are marketed as "monitors" or mentioned as surrounds/centers. Should this give me pause when thinking about using them in a desktop setup for music enjoyment? Ive been reading up on ASR just long enough to know that sound is sound and any "color" is distortion and if I want to "color" the sound, I should do it through EQ and not just have the speakers do it by design. I am planning to go with a DAC/amp that has PEQ.

Ok, so if thats the case, why can I find almost no discussion about these speakers? I find it hard to believe I've cracked some kind of secret code to unlocking super clean sound for under $1k w/sub ($600 gets a pretty decent powered sub for a small room, something like an SB-1000 Pro). Am I missing something here? Is the lack of discussion simply because these are not mainstream enough? Any drawbacks to this setup I should be aware of? Any other recommendations that would be superior for the price?

HTM-200SE2 MINI-MONITOR PAIR

High Performance Compact Speaker New Klippel NFS optimized version! Utilizing high-resolution, 360-degree measurements from our Klippel NFS, we’ve completely re-engineered the beloved HTM-200SE, delivering significant improvements across every performance category. We’ve also updated the cabinet...

www.ascendacoustics.com

Adam D3V, Adam T5V, JBL 308P

Take your pick from any of the speakers depending on distance (if 1m or less use D3V if higher use the others), then get something like the wiim ultra for bass management and get an RSL Speedwoofer 10e OR the 12S/SVS PB-100 Pro, the latter two would be better choices due to the ability to dig down to 20 hz AND because their FR is linear.

Factor in the budget for a UMIK-1 and you're good to go.

If you want a good passive speaker then the Emotiva XB2 is a decent pick especially if you have something like the wiim to perform eq corrections with.

 

[Goran-P]

Ok, followup question. The titan luna v2 is within $100 of the sierra v2. Would the luna actually sound better in my space? These would be at about 1 ft from the wall, both powered by the same amp, using a sub (or small stereo subs) for either. I can fit either on my desk and the cost difference is negligible. Frequency response is comparable from what I could tell. Could smaller actually be better in this case? Or is bigger still better, all else being equal? Is distortion a bigger concern with the luna?

Luna v2 titan

View attachment 518065

View attachment 518066

Sierra v2

View attachment 518067

View attachment 518069

Good that you called Dave, that was going to be my suggestion. Note that the sierras are ported in the rear, which might be an issue if you are placing them 1' away from a wall. I specifically got the Luna's because they were front ported, since mine are only a few inches away from the windows (I have them on a deep window sill). Plus, the size fit me perfect. I have the RAAL tweeters, and listen with them about a meter away from my ears, level to the tweeters. I also have a 10" sub (old aperion model) under my desk. I've REW'ed the whole thing to about 80% accuracy. i need to re-calibrate my mike and then can get closer to 100%. let me tell you, with the Topping LA90 Discrete Amp and RME ADI-2 Dac, the sound is just lovely. It easily goes 90+ DB with no distortion or 'nearfield funky-ness' from the RAAL. It just sounds clean and crisp, not shrill. I don't think distortion will be an issue whatsoever, unless you want to listen at ear-piercing levels From the specs, the sierras have deeper bass response, which is nice, even with a sub (both speakers need subs, IMO). And i think you are right about the sierras being more versatile and having better resale. For me, the RAAL, front port, and size were key factors.

 

[Justin8888]

Good that you called Dave, that was going to be my suggestion. Note that the sierras are ported in the rear, which might be an issue if you are placing them 1' away from a wall. I specifically got the Luna's because they were front ported, since mine are only a few inches away from the windows (I have them on a deep window sill). Plus, the size fit me perfect. I have the RAAL tweeters, and listen with them about a meter away from my ears, level to the tweeters. I also have a 10" sub (old aperion model) under my desk. I've REW'ed the whole thing to about 80% accuracy. i need to re-calibrate my mike and then can get closer to 100%. let me tell you, with the Topping LA90 Discrete Amp and RME ADI-2 Dac, the sound is just lovely. It easily goes 90+ DB with no distortion or 'nearfield funky-ness' from the RAAL. It just sounds clean and crisp, not shrill. I don't think distortion will be an issue whatsoever, unless you want to listen at ear-piercing levels From the specs, the sierras have deeper bass response, which is nice, even with a sub (both speakers need subs, IMO). And i think you are right about the sierras being more versatile and having better resale. For me, the RAAL, front port, and size were key factors.

Thanks for the perspective. Do you have a high pass cutoff to the lunas or running full range?

 

[Goran-P]

mine are running full range ... your gut is right - you don't need HPC ... but don't forget I say that and I have RAAL tweeters ... but I can't imagine that will change with the titan domes. Anyway, good luck, and here's a pic of my office set up, for inspiration ??

 

[AscendDF]

View attachment 515023

Not a fan of this at all and this would keep me from buying them.

Hi Defi,

It is important to understand what you are looking at, and why. Our 200's are an asymmetrical design when oriented vertically, much like the MK-S150 (which I believe Amir tested). Off-axis radiation to the left and right of the speaker is going to be different because the tweeter and woofers are not on the same vertical plane. The benefit of this type of design is that you get +/- 50 degs horizontal dispersion when the speaker is oriented vertically, AND you also get +/- 50 degs horizontal when the speaker is oriented horizontally.

While wide horizontal dispersion of at least +/- 50 degs is quite beneficial, I am not sure there is any benefit for it being symmetrical because overall radiation of the speaker is excellent.

Hope this makes sense!

 

[ShadowBoxer]

It is important to understand what you are looking at, and why.

What would you anticipate the practical impact to be of the dip in DI?