Monitors for digital piano, how much delay?

[Jazzy]

Hi, this is my first post here.

I am looking for low budget monitors to upgrade my digital piano. The KRK Rokit 5 G4 look great because the port is on the front and my piano is against a wall (and so the monitors will be).

But my concern is how much delay this modern digital monitors add to the sound. This is very important when you play an instrument. I think less than 10 ms is needed.

Thanks

 

[DanTheMan]

My ADAM have an imperceptible delay for sure.

 

[Juhazi]

The DSP perhaps can be bypassed? I didn't find info about the delay it makes, but most likely it's less than 10ms. Anyway KRK is safe buy and easy to sell if you are not happy!
I'd choose 7 or 8 instead of 5. Any chance you can have a listen somewhere?

Rokit® Generation 4 Powered Studio Monitors

The KRK ROKIT Generation 4 lineup expands and exceeds beyond the legacy performance for which the ROKITs are known.

www.krkmusic.com

 

[hyperplanar]

Most non-analog studio monitors seem to have about 1-2 ms of delay. The speed of sound is about 1 ft/msec so the delay would be like sitting an extra foot or two away from the piano.

 

[digitalfrost]

KH120 and KH310 are still analog.

 

[Sancus]

It's doubtful many studio monitors have 10ms or more delay. Most are under 5ms. They are often used for delay sensitive tasks.

 

[Juhazi]

Seems like others haven't noticed the room-correction dsp of G4 series... The question is, how much delay this DSP makes compared to basic active monitors!

DSP-driven Onboard EQ with Visual LCD for Versatility
Onboard LCD Visual EQ: DSP-driven Graphic EQ with 25 settings help condition your acoustic environment while offering new levels of versatility in a studio monitor. The flat setting is great for most environments, but low, mid, and high frequency presets can be adjusted to help compensate for common trouble spots in different sound environments. This feature is also great for when you want a different EQ response between creating music and mixing music. The standalone KRK Audio Tools App which will be available in the near future for download in the Google Play and iOS App Stores will also help to assist with monitor placement, level matching, subwoofer level and crossover setting assistance, polarity, and EQ.

 

[KMO]

I think you're going to be totally safe when dealing with actual professional monitors. They know latency is critical.

And even most active consumer speakers are probably fine. Manufacturers seem to try to keep it down. For example, the KEF LS50 Wireless II's white paper states "The maximum delay through the speaker is comfortably less than 6ms", and that can be reduced by turning off the phase correction.

Significant (>10ms) delays usually occur in bits of kit like AV receivers, running heftier DSP tasks like room correction. I can't get my AVR-4308 down below 20ms, and either Dynamic EQ or Dynamic Volume adds an extra 15ms.

 

[Jazzy]

Thank you all for your replies. What a nice comunity!

It is worth trying one of those monitors with my piano.

 

[garbulky]

You would do well to consider headphones at that price range too.

 

[DVDdoug]

Usually monitoring latency comes from monitoring through a computer (while recording or perhaps with virtual instruments). If you're not using a computer there won't be a problem. Computers require a buffer (which is a also delay) because of the multitasking operating system, and any plug-in effects often add their own latency.

Often the latency can be reduced to the point where it's unnoticeable but IMO it's better if you can monitor without going through the computer. (That only applies to the performer... Latency isn't a problem for the recording engineer.)

KRK Rokit 5 G4

That's kinda' small for "realistic" piano sound...

 

[KMO]

Here are some latency numbers from Genelec for comparison:

https://support.genelec.com/hc/en-us/articles/360013403799-What-is-the-delay-latency-through-SAM-monitors-

https://support.genelec.com/hc/en-us/articles/4404787722002-What-are-the-latency-values-of-The-Ones-for-Extended-Phase-Linearity-EPL-

Basically 3.5-4.5ms, plus an extra 3.7ms if "extended phase linearity" is enabled, so similar to the KEF.

 

[napilopez]

Hi, this is my first post here.

I am looking for low budget monitors to upgrade my digital piano. The KRK Rokit 5 G4 look great because the port is on the front and my piano is against a wall (and so the monitors will be).

But my concern is how much delay this modern digital monitors add to the sound. This is very important when you play an instrument. I think less than 10 ms is needed.

Thanks

Although Ive never tried the KRK's, I've tried many a speaker with my digital piano and as long as your spurce has low enough latency, any latency from the monitors will be imperceptible. As noted by @KMO, monitors are designed knowing latency is critical. And in any case, even an acoustic piano has some latency ( I think I remember reading something like 20ms?) So getting 0 latency from the overall system isn't a necessity

 

[audio2920]

Some people seem to be more thrown by the delay than others. For me a system delay of more than about 8ms starts to impact what I'm doing. But I'm not an experienced pianist (OK I'm a complete amature really ) maybe if you're used to playing in adverse conditions on stage you can play around this kinda thing better? I dunno.

But I agree with everyone else, so long as you stay away from certain wireless hi-fi solutions and go for something designed for studio use, the manufacturers know they need to compromise what they do & don't do in DSP in order to keep latency down.

Edit: when I say system delay, that excludes speed of sound delay from the monitors. Anyway, it's not something you need to worry about with pro monitors, but obviously the total delay you experience is cumulative and these days everything in the chain is probably adding a bit.

 

[KMO]

Good point on the "latency" of a real piano. A digital one is in potential danger of being too responsive compared to a real one, I guess. But would that be a bad thing?

I found "Rockin Cowboy"s answer here quite good:

When does audio latency matter and not matter?

When does audio latency (physical action to heard sound) matter and/or not matter? iOS touch-to-sound latency is reported to be on the order of 50 milliSeconds, yet some musicians manage to play...

music.stackexchange.com

explaining why piano/keyboard players have higher latency tolerance compared to many other musicians.