Monitor choice for mixing / mastering in a small room

[langueneers]

I am looking for a pair of studio monitors with flat frequency response with which I can mix / master self-recorded music in
a small, partially treated room (3x4 m).
I have been researching on monitors a lot, but I have not come to any conclusion yet with regard to whether the price
really is worth the sound quality difference.

I have the following candidates:

1. Neumann KH 80 (120 are too expensive)

2. Focal Shape 50

3. HEDD type 05 a-core

4. Dynaudio Lyd 5

I also had the Kali Audio LP6 2nd wave in mind, but they are slightly too large and too heavy.

I know that all these only have 4 or 5 inch woofers, that most people advice to use a subwoofer with them, but I do not
record or listen to bass-heavy music, which is why I think < 50hz is irrelevant for me.
The issue is, I have some strong space constraints, so the monitors should not weigh significantly more than 6 kg
and should measure only 30 cm * 22 cm *20 cm (+/- 2 cm). I am not looking for an "improvement" over existing monitors, since currently I have no
dedicated studio monitors, but use yamaha studio headphones and check against old Teufel Ultima 20 on a Yamaha hifi system.

For me, it is important that I can use them on low volume, it is not an option for me to crank loudness up to make them sound good.

Do you have any pointers or suggestions in that regard? Maybe experiences with the listed monitors and knowledge about their
weaknesses? I have listened in person to Focal Alpha 50, Adam A4V and Focal Shape 50. I excluded the Alpha 50 for their lack
in distinctiveness, and the A4V just sounded overwhelmed, although I had the feeling that they made errors pop out much better.
The Focal Shape 50 really sounded convincing, but my fear is they sound too good to be true and that they cover up issues in the mix.

Thank you in advance for advice.

 

[Chris A]

I am looking for a pair of studio monitors with flat frequency response with which I can mix / master self-recorded music in a small, partially treated room (3x4 m)...

For me, it is important that I can use them on low volume, it is not an option for me to crank loudness up to make them sound good.

Do you have any pointers or suggestions in that regard? Maybe experiences with the listed monitors and knowledge about their weaknesses?

I have listened in person to [,,,]

While you're awaiting responses to your specific question (which exact monitors to choose from your short list), I think it would be helpful to quantify, if you have this additional information available:

1. how much "partially treated room" are you talking about? [Do you have something like a REW measurement of the reverberation times ("RT60" plots...mostly looking at T30 and EDT curves) available?]
2. what typical genres of music are you recording (i.e., death metal, classical guitar, etc.)?
3. how far away from the loudspeakers' front baffles are you going to be listening to them, and whether or not they will be sitting on a table?
4. can you define average "low volume" in dB(C) at the listening position. Is this quieter than your instruments/voices that you're recording?
5. do you plan to dial-in these loudspeakers after installation using DSP (i.e., amplitude and phase compensation)?

If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking at relative sensitivity ratings of the loudspeakers, and looking for the higher sensitivity or efficiency device, then carefully dialing them in using DSP and something like REW to measure acoustically.

Chris

 

[langueneers]

While you're awaiting responses to your specific question (which exact monitors to choose from your short list), I think it would be helpful to quantify, if you have this additional information available:

1. how much "partially treated room" are you talking about? [Do you have something like a REW measurement of the reverberation times ("RT60" plots...mostly looking at T30 and EDT curves) available?]
2. what typical genres of music are you recording (i.e., death metal, classical guitar, etc.)?
3. how far away from the loudspeakers' front baffles are you going to be listening to them, and whether or not they will be sitting on a table?
4. can you define average "low volume" in dB(C) at the listening position. Is this quieter than your instruments/voices that you're recording?
5. do you plan to dial-in these loudspeakers after installation using DSP (i.e., amplitude and phase compensation)?

If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking at relative sensitivity ratings of the loudspeakers, and looking for the higher sensitivity or efficiency device, then carefully dialing them in using DSP and something like REW to measure acoustically.

Chris

Thank you for your reply. I'll do my best to supply info:

1. Some DIY diffusors, I have no REW measurement. My room is not professionally treated.
2. Rock / Pop plus voice recording, Instrumental stuff, mostly guitar / e-guitar / piano / drums, also cinematic, no techno / bass-heavy stuff 3. less than 1.5 meters, on two slightly elevated shelves above a table, besides a display monitor (hence the size limit). They will also be quite close to a wall on the back (less than 20 cm)
4. I cannot give a specific db value, but definitely lower than a voice / instrument is when recording
5. No, actually not - I thought that would be dependent on whether the monitors have dsp, I do not have an external dsp / control for the monitors - they would go straight into the output of a Motu M2.

 

[ElJaimito]

I am looking for a pair of studio monitors with flat frequency response with which I can mix / master self-recorded music in
a small, partially treated room (3x4 m).
I have been researching on monitors a lot, but I have not come to any conclusion yet with regard to whether the price
really is worth the sound quality difference.

Tastes vary. If at all possible try to audition the speakers you are interested in before purchase. Price does reflect on utility for professional work, but the law of diminishing returns also applies.

I have the Neuman 120, previous to latest, and I preferred those to Genelecs at the same price. They are now available second user. Focal speakers sound lovely, but they are too sweet for my taste for mixing etc, for music playback they are a delight. Your preferences may vary, so as above try for an audition. I'm about to audition Dynaudio 59 series prior to considering a purchase. HEDD (and Adam) have a very particular tweeter sound IME, so you might want to check if you like that. And any of them might not suit your room. I was able to borrow the speakers I wanted, to test for a month in my room before buying; most decent dealers will allow something like this IME.

I'd caution you that low frequency response, hence subs, is an essential for quality control. If you don't have it in your monitors ensure that you have headphones that can reproduce down to 20Hz or so to be certain that there there is no LF nastiness going on. A recent vocal recording I did at a London studio turned out to be useless because they had ATC SCM25A MKII without subs or room EQ, and when I got back to my studio I found horrible hum and LF phase modulation sub 50 Hz, totally not reproduced by those speakers in that room (I like ATC and recommend any with bigger than 12" woofers, but really dislike the small ones after this experience).

I'd start with whatever monitors you choose as close to the wall as feasible to minimise rear bounce effects -- https://www.genelec.com/monitor-placement -- with appropriate EQ selected, so avoid rear vented boxes. Then run measurements using any of the available systems (REW is free, IK ARC is excellent, especially the hardware version, Sonarworks is good (but system level problematic for me), etc etc, there's others too, they will all work for this.

And of course measuring the room and fixing anything that is feasible within budget is the best investment possible. Whatever the acoustic question, the usual answer is "bass traps"! Oh, and sending stuff out for mastering when you are the composer/performer/arranger/mixer is very fruitful, and inexpensive. Ask me how I know!

Cheers.

 

[Avp1]

I am looking for a pair of studio monitors with flat frequency response with which I can mix / master self-recorded music in
a small, partially treated room (3x4 m).
I have been researching on monitors a lot, but I have not come to any conclusion yet with regard to whether the price
really is worth the sound quality difference.

I have the following candidates:

1. Neumann KH 80 (120 are too expensive)

2. Focal Shape 50

3. HEDD type 05 a-core

4. Dynaudio Lyd 5

I also had the Kali Audio LP6 2nd wave in mind, but they are slightly too large and too heavy.

I know that all these only have 4 or 5 inch woofers, that most people advice to use a subwoofer with them, but I do not
record or listen to bass-heavy music, which is why I think < 50hz is irrelevant for me.
The issue is, I have some strong space constraints, so the monitors should not weigh significantly more than 6 kg
and should measure only 30 cm * 22 cm *20 cm (+/- 2 cm). I am not looking for an "improvement" over existing monitors, since currently I have no
dedicated studio monitors, but use yamaha studio headphones and check against old Teufel Ultima 20 on a Yamaha hifi system.

For me, it is important that I can use them on low volume, it is not an option for me to crank loudness up to make them sound good.

Do you have any pointers or suggestions in that regard? Maybe experiences with the listed monitors and knowledge about their
weaknesses? I have listened in person to Focal Alpha 50, Adam A4V and Focal Shape 50. I excluded the Alpha 50 for their lack
in distinctiveness, and the A4V just sounded overwhelmed, although I had the feeling that they made errors pop out much better.
The Focal Shape 50 really sounded convincing, but my fear is they sound too good to be true and that they cover up issues in the mix.

Thank you in advance for advice.

Room of that size has to be HEAVILY treated. Otherwise no speakers will be usable and headphones will be the only option. Also you will likely need subwoofer(s), since most speakers which reach coherence of sound in 1-2 meters will be small and not able to reproduce any real bass.