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Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC and Streamer Review

barrows

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Trinity! This is the original ‘Trinity’ preamp,


Dietmar was going to produce a fine measuring range of products at reasonably inexpensive prices.
Until his far eastern distributor told him that the cases were too light and the prices too cheap, in came milled from solid and a tripling of the retail price, with the old boards simply being inserted into the new cases, we parted company at that point.
Keith

Hey Keith: Just to be perfectly clear, I am not advocating for DACs @$50K (although I have no problem that some companies produce them, after all, they are not like Insulin or something where people must purchase them to survive). In fact, for me personally, I think the equations and approaches which get us to 5 figure (and 6!) electronic components in the first place are mostly flawed (not in the case of loudspeakers though). I fully believe that SOTA audio electronics can be produced and offered to the consumer in the four figure range. But I do sympathize with and understand the thoughts of the Asian distributor in question.
 

Purité Audio

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For me it simply demonstrates how rotten much of the Hi-Fi business has become.
Keith
 

Matias

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For me it simply demonstrates how rotten much of the Hi-Fi business has become.
Keith
For me it is just a matter of point of views.

Some customers value high end CNC milled cases and luxury components decorating their rooms, even if the performance is not significantly improved. They are willing to spend on it and companies are willing to supply. Good for them.

If other consumers don't value casing and components and just want to minimize spending money and maximum performance, there are other companies willing to supply. Good for them too.

It's not because people buy Bugattis and Rolexes and Armanis that I think these industries are "rotten". These are just not my interests, and I wish them good luck in their market bubbles. We have to be more open minded and accepting of what different people value and want.
 

barrows

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For me it simply demonstrates how rotten much of the Hi-Fi business has become.
Keith

Hmmm. Well, you are of course entitled to your opinion, but I do not share it in the least. These are luxury items which no person is forced to purchase, like a high end watches at 6 figures, and 7 figure automobiles, expensive 4 and 5 figure bottles of wine. I see nothing "rotten" here, and the companies making these products, for the most part, are not making a lot of money on these products either.
The attitude that there is something "rotten" going on, seems prevalent at this site, but with the possible exception of some (and not all) of the cable companies, and as someone who has worked in this industry for about 20 years now, I see little to no evidence of ill intent from manufacturers of audio components.

There are plenty of areas of the world economy and business practices to feel "rotten" about, such as the health care and drug scam here in the US, or the criminal activity in the financial sector going on all over the world with Banks like Deutsche Banke acting as money launderers fro criminal enterprises. I'll keep my criticism for sectors where it is really warranted.
 

pozz

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For me it is just a matter of point of views.

Some customers value high end CNC milled cases and luxury components decorating their rooms, even if the performance is not significantly improved. They are willing to spend on it and companies are willing to supply. Good for them.

If other consumers don't value casing and components and just want to minimize spending money and maximum performance, there are other companies willing to supply. Good for them too.

It's not because people buy Bugattis and Rolexes and Armanis that I think these industries are "rotten". These are just not my interests, and I wish them good luck in their market bubbles. We have to be more open minded and accepting of what different people value and want.
I think Keith had in mind the perspective in which "high-end appearance" is linked or equated to "high-end performance".
 

Purité Audio

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For me it is just a matter of point of views.

Some customers value high end CNC milled cases and luxury components decorating their rooms, even if the performance is not significantly improved. They are willing to spend on it and companies are willing to supply. Good for them.

If other consumers don't value casing and components and just want to minimize spending money and maximum performance, there are other companies willing to supply. Good for them too.

It's not because people buy Bugattis and Rolexes and Armanis that I think these industries are "rotten". These are just not my interests, and I wish them good luck in their market bubbles. We have to be more open minded and accepting of what different people value and want.
But those expensive products are not marketed as just having an expensive case are they, we are told that they offer superior performance, every upgrade until we reach audio nirvana.
Tell me the next time you see a product advertised as having the same performance as a cheaper model but has an expensive case.
Keith
 

Matias

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I think Keith had in mind the perspective in which "high-end appearance" is linked or equated to "high-end performance".
If people like the appearance of totalDAC and read the measurements and see they are bad and still listen to it, like and buy them, then it is an informed decision, no "scam" or "rotten industry" at all. We have to stop thinking one has the absolute truths and must "save the naive ones from the injustices of this world". Yes, it is important to measure and publish those freely for customers to make informed decisions, but there it stops and we have to accept that people may buy it nonetheless for other values that we don't agree to. Say tube amplifiers or a Cadillac don't have the best measured performances yet people know this and still like and buy them knowingly.
 
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Purité Audio

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Your point of view ultimately leads to the kitty-litter, ‘grounding’ box, I for one want to have nothing to do with charlatanism.
Keith
 

pozz

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If people like the appearance of totalDAC and read the measurements and see they are bad and still listen to it, like and buy them, then it is an informed decision, no "scam" or "rotten industry" at all. We have to stop thinking one has the absolute truths and must "save the naive ones from the injustices of this world". Yes, it is important to measure and publish those freely for customer to make informed decisions, but there it stops and we have to accept that people may buy it nonetheless for other values that we don't agree too. Say tube amplifiers or a Cadillac don't have the best measured performances yet people know this and still like and buy them knowingly.
It doesn't seem to be an issue of absolute truths. More an indication of competing perspectives.

Fact is, it's not a level playing field. It's not justified to produce just any piece of gear for just any collection of reasons. The totalDAC designer was wrong for writing the ad/engineering copy he did, and the review industry was wrong for running with their uncritical positive assessments. The end-buyer did not get a choice in that sense. Misinformation was piled on top of other misinformation.

It seems pretty clear that performance claims should be tested and backed up, and that people can buy whatever they want. But some companies make it their business to muddy the waters, and prefer that the industry runs that way. They are convinced that they cannot sell products or continue business in a profitable manner if the state of affairs was different, i.e., clearer. That's worth fighting, I think. We should be honorable in our conduct, of course, but it's still a fight.
 

Matias

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It doesn't seem to be an issue of absolute truths. More an indication of competing perspectives.

Fact is, it's not a level playing field. It's not justified to produce just any piece of gear for just any collection of reasons. The totalDAC designer was wrong for writing the ad/engineering copy he did, and the review industry was wrong for running with their uncritical positive assessments. The end-buyer did not get a choice in that sense. Misinformation was piled on top of other misinformation.

It seems pretty clear that performance claims should be tested and backed up, and that people can buy whatever they want. But some companies make it their business to muddy the waters, and prefer that the industry runs that way. They are convinced that they cannot sell products or continue business in a profitable manner if the state of affairs was different, i.e., clearer. That's worth fighting, I think. We should be honorable in our conduct, of course, but it's still a fight.
While I agree with you, and I am a proud ASR Donor, I would change the term "fight" to "inform". Allowing people to make informed decisions. After that it is up to personal value and judgment, and IMO we should respect it.
 

boXem

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But those expensive products are not marketed as just having an expensive case are they, we are told that they offer superior performance, every upgrade until we reach audio nirvana.
Tell me the next time you see a product advertised as having the same performance as a cheaper model but has an expensive case.
Keith
Where I have hard time to follow your reasoning is that you sell both the Mola-Mola Kaluga and March P701. How do your customers choose between the two since they are technically very close? Do you just tell them that the Mola-Mola has a case which cost a fortune to manufacture and that this explains the price difference? Sincere question.
 
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pozz

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While I agree with you, and I am a proud ASR Donor, I would change the term "fight" to "inform". Allowing people to make informed decisions. After that it is up to personal value and judgment, and IMO we should respect it.
Sure—it's just such a struggle to find information and figure out if it's valid or not that the former verb seems more fitting.

I don't agree with short-tempered arguments or reactionary comments attacking buyers, if that's what you mean. There's more than enough bad air to go around already.
 
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Willem

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There is a nice theory in economics to explain such scams, and it is the theory of monopolisitc competition. Once particular goods have become homogeneous goods as it is called, i.e. there are no real differences between them, the market becomes a full competition market where price is given by the intersection of supply and demand, just like the market of grain, coffee or steel of defined and certified properties. Such certification provides the transparency that such markets require. Producers cannot raise their prices above the market equilibrium because nobody would buy from them.
The escape from such fierce competition is to claim that your product is not in fact a homogeneous good, but has special properties that the competition does not have, i.e. you are a monopolist of that particular product. Classic examples are in soft drinks and similar food stuffs that cannot normally be distinguished in blind tastings, and can only command a higher price because of percieved superiority thanks to massive advertising expenditure. In the field of audio electronics, where big players like Yamaha have a massive economy of scale advantage, the small players can only charge the high prices that they need to cover their higher costs by spurious snake oil claims, expensive cases, and collusion with the audio press.
 

Purité Audio

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Where I have hard time to follow your reasoning is that you sell both the Mola-Mola Kaluga and March P701. How do your customers choose between the two since they are technically very close? Do you just tell them that the Mola-Mola has a case which cost a fortune to manufacture and that this explains the price difference? Sincere question.
Yes, we don’t really sell many Mola products they weren’t keen on me expressing my honest opinion and I wasn’t prepared to lie.
Keith
 

Jinjuku

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Does the Tambaqui offer selectable reconstruction filters?
 

Matias

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