Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC and Streamer Review

[Veri]

The latency is indeed around 100ms, for all inputs. There's no real reason for it other than at some point we finally got the ASRC algorithm working glitch-free by making the input data buffer rather long. Much later we figured out how to get that down to less than a millisecond but never got down to applying that insight to the Tambaqui. Oh well.

That's too bad though, to hear you got it down so low later on but it didn't make it to the DAC

 

[Todesengel]

Here it is for S/PDIF:

View attachment 45093

I don't trust the USB measurements yet but they appear to be twice as long at around 100 milliseconds.

Thanks Amir! For your reference this is the response I got from their support group for latency via USB:

The latency depends of the sample rate. These are the average latency values:

• 44.1k: 55ms
• 48k: 48ms
• 88.2k: 28ms
• 96k: 26ms
• 176.4k: 14ms
• 192k: 13ms

Kind regards,

Sjoerd Kiewiet | Mola Mola | Support Engineer | www.mola-mola.nl |

EDIT: It appears that they must have quoted S/PDIF even though I asked for USB according to @Bruno Putzeys response. Either way 100ms should be fine for video.

 

[Matias]

As I said the DAC project was done in 2013... Before Purifi, and before Kii even...

So if I get it right, the DAC design was done in 2013, the first product using it (Makua preamp) released in mid 2014, and the standalone DAC (Tambaqui) only now in mid 2019.

 

[gvl]

If people are going to shell out serious moolah for a DAC, least thing you can do is show an objectively provable benefit.

It is refreshing to see a high-end audio designer making such a statement.

 

[Shadrach]

Thanks for the review amirm.
It's a very nice DAC. It looks very well made from what I can see and understand.
It has stunning performance. I couldn't see anything in the graphs that would suggest you ever hear the DAC.
With a state of the art DAC, I suppose, if you wanted you could aim your product at the audiophile market with a price tag to suit.
It will be interesting to find out how much longer such apparently well built DAC's last compared to the cheaper options; the cheaper options being a fraction of it's price giving near identical performance.
I hope they manage to sell lots of these. At least it does what it says on the label.

 

[Thomas savage]

All ADCs/DACs have some sort internal data format that is used to get from digital to analogue. The converter circuit and the internal format are chosen together, depending on the designer's judgment or expectation of which combo is optimal.

There are only two cases where the internal format coincides with an existing audio format. On one extreme are R2R DACs that directly convert the PCM data you feed them by controlling 24 switchable current sources, each of which has half the current of the previous one. On the other extreme sit 1-bit converters that switch a single current or voltage source but at a high sampling rate. Both these extremes have limitations and the most common choice these days is a kind of compromise. They use a small number of bits (typically 5) that are used to control 32 (2^5) current sources with nominally equal currents, plus some trick to make the conversion minimally sensitive to any imbalances in those currents. The Tambaqui sits more or less in this camp: the PWM signal has a switching frequency of 3.125MHz, and can take 33 discrete lengths from 0*10ns to 32*10ns. So it's basically a 5-bit, 3.125MHz converter. The choice for PWM was given by the need to get rid of those idle tones I mentioned.

In any DAC design the internal format is essentially fixed, as it's a design choice. So any type of digital signal first gets converted to that format. That conversion consists of two stages. The first is upsampling and that takes the sample rate up to the sample rate of the internal format. Then the second is sigma-delta modulation (or noise shaping, however you want to call it) which takes the word length down to the word length of the internal format while preserving the SNR inside the audio band. Unfortunately, a succession of audio product and sales managers have conspired to conflate the second stage with the first, thereby confusing just about anyone with a passing interest in the technical background.

---

The latency is indeed around 100ms, for all inputs. There's no real reason for it other than at some point we finally got the ASRC algorithm working glitch-free by making the input data buffer rather long. Much later we figured out how to get that down to less than a millisecond but never got down to applying that insight to the Tambaqui. Oh well.

---

I hope I'm not offending anyone if I don't take part in the discussion further, but I have amplifier and speaker work on my plate. As I said the DAC project was done in 2013... Before Purifi, and before Kii even...

Thanks Bruno, your time is super appreciated and no doubt best spent elsewhere so thanks again for your generosity here.

 

[Milt]

Everything I'm familiar with that Bruno's designed or had a hand in, is excellent all round.
Although rather than naming the gear after a fish, maybe Moola Moola would be more apt but lost on anyone 20 years younger than myself

That said why would uber high-end buyers for like dCS or EMM Labs or other esoteric gear not consider this?

Bruno's post is typically succinct and understandable to even an EE knuckle dragger like moi.
Reminds me of Richard Feynman.
If I had the funds this is what I would buy along with Mola Mola amps

 

[March Audio]

Re latency and lip-sync it should be noted in domestic circumstances TV's have a lot of video processing going on with video delays anything from 40ms to 150ms. You will always need to do some form of timing adjustment with an external dac to get it perfect.

If anyone has Netflix you can get a good idea of how your system is syncing. Just do a search on test patterns.

 

[digitalfrost]

@amirm could we please get a measurement of input latency? I think this would be beneficial to add to the suite of standard tests for those of us who watch videos so we know which DACs will cause lip sync issues.

This would also help for mixing DACs in multichannel setups. You can hardly buy multiple Mola Molas if you need more than stereo.

 

[March Audio]

@amirm could we please get a measurement of input latency? I think this would be beneficial to add to the suite of standard tests for those of us who watch videos so we know which DACs will cause lip sync issues.

Im not sure its that helpful as your TV / projector will have variable latency so you wont be able to use the info to predict or adjust sync. You need to use a testcard.

 

[pierre]

Are there numbers for rme? I expect most normal DACs are low latency, it's probably the conversion to PWM that introduces the delay.

gearslutz has a full database of results. Link points to a comparison between rme ufx+ and another interface.

 

[pos]

In addition to synchronization with external sources, latency info is vital for multiway or multichannel operations when mixing different DACs with aes/spdif inputs. There are several aspects to take into account here:

• base latency
• latency variability on sync (not guarantied to be fixed with FIFO implementation for example)
• latency drift over time (could happen with non ASRC implementations, especially if the clocks of the incoming signal are different)

 

[anmpr1]

I’m sure Bruno et. al could make a Value For Money product, retailing for 3 figures, or even 2 figures for the ASR bargain hunters. With only a few compromises.

I don't know his business, but often small outfits have to charge a lot because they are small. In order to realistically cover operating expenses. Why produce a 2 or 3 thousand dollar DAC when the market has that one already covered with quality products from Benchmark, etc?

Other than a headphone jack in the wrong place, this item actually looks and measures like it costs. The 'problem' with it, if there is a problem, is that when you sell on excellent engineering, eventually someone will produce something equivalent for less money. Then all bets are off, because you then have to offer something value-added in order to keep it going at the original price level.

I can understand why someone might purchase this DAC--they want the best. OK. There it is. But where does that leave his amplifier? For someone who is spec driven, is there anything compelling about Mola's amp, over a much less expensive pair of bridged AHB2s? I don't see that, at all. Unless you just want a 'systems' approach to integrate into your shelf. The set looks great, together.

 

[Todesengel]

I can understand why someone might purchase this DAC--they want the best. OK. There it is. But where does that leave his amplifier? For someone who is spec driven, is there anything compelling about Mola's amp, over a much less expensive pair of bridged AHB2s? I don't see that, at all. Unless you just want a 'systems' approach to integrate into your shelf. The set looks great, together.

I drank the Mola koolaid after seeing this review and am in the process of constructing an extremely low distortion system. I have plans to trade in my AURALiC gear that are currently with Amir for measurement for the Tambaqui (unless the AURALiC stack turns out to have god-like performance which I doubt).

I started looking into Mola's Kaluga amp but the only measurements I could find didn't hold a candle to Benchmark:
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...rs&catid=97:amplifier-measurements&Itemid=154

 

[Purité Audio]

The Kalugas are essentially NCore 1200s, has AMIR measured the Hypex 1200?
Re the Benchmarks I have those too, can’t hear any difference here.
Keith

 

[Matias]

I started looking into Mola's Kaluga amp but the only measurements I could find didn't hold a candle to Benchmark:
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...rs&catid=97:amplifier-measurements&Itemid=154

Kalugas are based on Hypex NCore NC1200 with some tweaks ("2 pairs of Furutech binding posts bi-wired directly to the amplifier PCB using Kubala·Sosna cable" they state). Their performance should be pretty similar to the Nord NC1200 that Amir reviewed. Which is quite close to AHB2 in my opinion, but with a lot more power.

Other modules like Hypex NCore NC500, NC400 and Purifi 1ET400A have lower distortion figures but with decreasing max power. These are all top 5 amplifier SINAD here in ASR.

Also worth considering from March, Nord, Apollon, Audiophonics, Vera, etc.

 

[anmpr1]

Kalugas ... should be ... quite close to AHB2

Got it. But at this level of game, and at Mola's price (almost 3X a set of bridged AHB2), 'quite close' is just not close enough... if one is playing the spec game. And that's the game he's obviously playing with his DAC.

I'm not saying the Kaluga + DAC don't make a handsome pair. But given the niche he's carved out for himself with this DAC, I just don't see it on an absolute basis. But at these prices, it's all theoretical to me.

At the SoundStage site we can compare Bascom King's measurements on fairly similar graphs. Note: I removed the graphs since the SoundStage site has a big copy infringement statement prohibiting 'reproduction' of their findings. I certainly don't want to cause ASR headaches over a graph.

But below are the links.

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...rs&catid=97:amplifier-measurements&Itemid=154

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...hb2-stereo-mono-amplifier&catid=97&Itemid=154

 

[Svperstar]

*cough*

 

[Matias]

Got it. But at this level of game, and at Mola's price (almost 3X a set of bridged AHB2), 'quite close' is just not close enough... if one is playing the spec game. And that's the game he's obviously playing with his DAC.

Kalugas are expensive, agreed. But what I mentioned is that you can get 2 March Audio NC1200 based monos for 3k usd or 2 Apollon NC1200 based monos for 2.4k euros. A pair of Benchmark AHB2s is 6k usd.....

 

[Todesengel]

. Which is quite close to AHB2 in my opinion, but with a lot more power.

Am I missing something here? AHB2 in mono [500W 4ohm <0.0003 THD+N] wipe the floor with the referenced the Nord NC1200 implementation [480W <.008 THD+N].

Even in the actual measurements I posted of the NC1200 Mola mono implementation, the AHB2 affords magnitude better distortion at the same power:

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...rs&catid=97:amplifier-measurements&Itemid=154

Yes the Mola implementation of NC1200 can stretch to 840W but at 10% THD+N? No thanks.