MoFi Sourcepoint V10 Master Edition

[Marin]

There is a school of thought that crossing over to the woofer should occur between 300 and 600hz to avoid the mid woofer playing down into the power powerband where many (not all) mid woofers can get uncomfortable, ie KEF. Just a note..

Well, I wouldn't really agree with you.
If you said any other speaker manufacturer I would agree with you.
But here a few months ago I think it was in the topic about KEF Q9 meta one of the owners noticed that they crossovers between models are all over the place between concentric drivers and woofers...and took the opportunity to ask the acoustic engineer who works at KEF and was politely joined the discation and was answer a lot of questions...
Not by much maybe 100,150 hz difference from one model to another and he didn't understand why.
The answer was that the further the woofers are from the concentric driver the lover they try to crossed them between... because they want to preserve that point source design that are highly praised for...
At first, I didn't believe in the honesty of his answer either,because all the models were so close and I thought he was looking at acoustic crossovers, not electric,but when he finally said that theirs highest-ranking flagship model KEF Blade 2 meta actually for that very reason is crossed the highest off all the other models I just trusted him,especially because the buyer, the owner, didn't even mention that model or showed measurements of near field driver's...
I will try to find that post because lot of people believe in same thing like you but excursion at frequencies above 100hz is not that high...

Oh, here it is, I found it.

This is where I realized who this is really about.

And here is a question from the owner of one of the KEF speaker's
Later on

Then the speculations begins

A few more questions

Then we come to the professional answer and the real reason for such low crossovers.

These tell's me that they pay attention to this stuff unlike some company's that let woofer sing to 600-1000 Herz in 3 way design, just so that can advertise as such but in reality middle driver is responsible for just 2 octaves or less and save money on crossover parts(inductors, capacitors)

 

[Marin]

Shocked to hear that Andrew has left MoFi already to become co-founder of a new speaker company - Jones & Cerreta.

Will these be forgotten or prized as a sleeper in years to come?

Does make me think I need to decide on speaker grilles while that’s still possible…

This doesn't surprise me at all considering I have his cheaper design, the Elac debut F5 first edition(first generation)
I've been following his work for quite some time.
He didn't stay anywhere long except for KEF and TAD/Pioneer where he honed his craft.
I think it's better that he left because every subsequent version of the same lines in Elac was worse or at best different.
He is initially inspired and knows what he likes and what will sound good with each type of music.
And that's a flat frequency response,3 way design with waveguides in "cheaper speakers" and concentric drivers in not so cheap models
Maybe LITTLE darker sound signature...at least in two way cheaper design's... and that is how KEF likes to design their speakers.
But these speakers sound like models 10 times more expensive because he really pay attention to details and know how design quality drivers, crossovers and so on... something that many people who are involved in this work simply lack the knowledge and experience...
I won't even talk about his expertise when it comes to sound tuning.
After that, it simply doesn't know what to do...ports on the front side, bright sounding speakers probably following the on-duty internet audio critics,that like to trolls...
I also see that his goal is not to design Audio jewelry and he try to keep away from snake oil unlike guys like Borresen....
I really admire this guy, he's proven that he can design $100 speakers and $86,000 speakers,and he's really the guy who got young people into this hobby, and you don't need to sell a kidney to a pair of good sounding speakers....
So smart and competent yet down to earth guy, just like modern knight
Sir Andrew Jones

 

[Marin]

Shocked to hear that Andrew has left MoFi already to become co-founder of a new speaker company - Jones & Cerreta.

Will these be forgotten or prized as a sleeper in years to come?

Does make me think I need to decide on speaker grilles while that’s still possible…

This second one for sure!
I still looking on sites for a pair of mine and I didn't see one,also people like to trade their expensive models, of course with a surcharge up to their speakers price point... definitely good value for money for these famous model like Mofy source point V10,or 888....

 

[Marin]

I did a quick google and it is an old technology used before permanent magnets were readily available at sufficient strength.

I need to dig more but it looks like only purveyors of snake oil are using the technology nowadays.

The cynic in me wonders if AJ is using his deservedly excellent reputation to create a hype around an old technology, applied in a novel way (concentric) to appeal to some audiophiles searching for what they’ve been missing all their life.

Will be interesting to see what the data says and what AJ says are the performance benefits.

This really surprises me.
But then again you have to have some different technology in high end hi-fi to justify that price point since it doesn't like magnesium drivers...
I recently read a comment here, I think it was about the type of cones and how they affect the sound that he would simply feel cheated into buying this Mofy design because of "paper drivers" go figure...

 

[Marin]

cool dizajna

"Cool design" it was never his goal in speaker design....

 

[thewas]

AJ while being a very good loudspeaker developer seems to be changing companies every few years, hope he will finally be happy and stay with his partially own one now longer. I really like the loudspeaker shown with the large baffle which has for me significant acoustical advantages but am afraid it won't be really affordable.

 

[Marin]

If AJ were at somewhere like Harman or KEF and had more budget, would they provide enough funding to get over some kind of hump and allow AJ to break out

Well, he was in a similar company(Elac) and designed quite a few speakers that sold in the tens of thousands.
But you can't expect from anyone to make one every month like on a production line...
He had some $5,000 models, but he had to use some crazy complicated designs with multiple boxes inside the cabinet and embedding the actual drivers inside the cabinet to be able to justify the price.
I guess it was crazy difficult to sound right... but again with nothing that has less IMD,THD,Dopler distortion like normal driver in port design...
A really tough market to conquer for someone like him, unlike guys like Boressen who swim like a fish in those waters.

 

[Marin]

hope he will finally be happy and stay with his partially own one now longer

I wish him that too from the bottom of my heart.

 

[Marin]

as in a tweeter inside a mid, inside a woofer? Holy mary, jesus, has this ever been done?

Yess

Cabasse La Sphère powered loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements The Cabasse La Sphère is bulky enough (footnote 1), heavy enough, and, with its need for quad-amplification, complicated enough that I felt that, rather than have the loudspeaker shipped to my lab for measurement, I would travel to it. So I paid a visit to Mikey's...

stereophile.com

Even more crazy, tweeter inside a upper mid, inside lover mid, inside woofer....
4-way concentric driver inside globus ball

 

[PGansz]

I wish him that too from the bottom of my heart.

Making the assumption he isn't happy because he changed companies is asinine.

 

[cavedriver]

I did a quick google and it is an old technology used before permanent magnets were readily available at sufficient strength.

I need to dig more but it looks like only purveyors of snake oil are using the technology nowadays.

The cynic in me wonders if AJ is using his deservedly excellent reputation to create a hype around an old technology, applied in a novel way (concentric) to appeal to some audiophiles searching for what they’ve been missing all their life.

Will be interesting to see what the data says and what AJ says are the performance benefits.

Actually, the use of a dual concentric field coils sort of makes sense. Remember that when he came out with the Sourcepoints he talked a lot about how he had designed the magnet structure such that the field from the tweeter's magnet was also part of the woofer's field (and vice versa?) so that he could get the flux density he was looking for. Since field coils use an electrical current to generate the magnetic background field and aren't limited by the magnetism possible with physical materials, you can achieve a higher flux density than you can with any magnet material. I'm not sure how badly he needed even higher flux density but at the very least I bet it got his engineer's mind going on finding out what was possible and if he could make a better coax driver. Very cool if something comes of it. Not sure about the cone shape of the mid as a baffle for the tweeter- I would have hoped he would do something more radical there but the proof will be in the testing and listening of course.

 

[cavedriver]

Making the assumption he isn't happy because he changed companies is asinine.

agreed, I work as a consultant so that I can learn from multiple companies, stay abreast of the latest developments, and apply whatever expertise I have to it's maximum potential, but the research that generates IP in my industry is mostly upstream of where I work in the process so consulting engineers are readily accepted. Historically in industrial America where trade secrets were central to market leadership this type of portable worker wasn't attractive but today's culture seems to have destroyed that relationship as you can see in the movement of essential engineering talent across EV companies.

 

[wgb113]

I think the aspect of co-ownership will allow him to entertain some designs he's sketched out in his notebook that might have been hindered in previous places by budgets.

That said - still absolutely adoring my MoFi SourcePoint V10 - no matter what genre of music or format of choice I throw at them they just impress the heck out of me!

If anyone's on the fence I'd encourage an audition while you still can!

 

[Matt_Holland]

Actually, the use of a dual concentric field coils sort of makes sense. Remember that when he came out with the Sourcepoints he talked a lot about how he had designed the magnet structure such that the field from the tweeter's magnet was also part of the woofer's field (and vice versa?) so that he could get the flux density he was looking for. Since field coils use an electrical current to generate the magnetic background field and aren't limited by the magnetism possible with physical materials, you can achieve a higher flux density than you can with any magnet material. I'm not sure how badly he needed even higher flux density but at the very least I bet it got his engineer's mind going on finding out what was possible and if he could make a better coax driver. Very cool if something comes of it. Not sure about the cone shape of the mid as a baffle for the tweeter- I would have hoped he would do something more radical there but the proof will be in the testing and listening of course.

Yeah I am intrigued. Could be something novel he’s come up with and even if it doesn’t result in a measurably significant performance there is still value in the invention and exclusivity of concept.

 

[jdbob]

I think the aspect of co-ownership will allow him to entertain some designs he's sketched out in his notebook that might have been hindered in previous places by budgets.

That said - still absolutely adoring my MoFi SourcePoint V10 - no matter what genre of music or format of choice I throw at them they just impress the heck out of me!

If anyone's on the fence I'd encourage an audition while you still can!

Are you assuming that just because Andrew left that Mofi will stop making the 4 speakers that are already in production? I can't see that happening.

 

[mhardy6647]

Are you assuming that just because Andrew left that Mofi will stop making the 4 speakers that are already in production? I can't see that happening.

I concur. E.g., it didn't happen at ELAC.

As to his hopping around in his employment (and/or consulting gigs, as the case may be): at least he's not like, e.g., Bob Carver, who would start a company, run it (almost) into the ground, sell it, then start another one.
I guess it could be fairly argued that Henry Kloss did that, too, come to think of it!

 

[Marin]

Are you assuming that just because Andrew left that Mofi will stop making the 4 speakers that are already in production? I can't see that happening.

I don't know about that, but I know in weird "termination of contract" between him and TAD\PIONEER it ended like a little strange.
Pioneer can freely use its name in old and new products
Of course the same goes for him

 

[MarcT]

Yes I don't have these speakers, but I have a pretty cheap 3 way design tuned-voiced buy his taste and when I listen to "You what it darker", well i won't say any audiophile bullshit, but I'm getting tingles.

"Hineni, hineni" shakes the room!

 

[mhardy6647]

I don't know about that, but I know in weird "termination of contract" between him and TAD\PIONEER it ended like a little strange.
Pioneer can freely use its name in old and new products
Of course the same goes for him

heck, anybody could use the name Pioneer as long as they keep the P lower case.

EDIT: Come to think of it, I think my generation would've enjoyed it much, much more in our "formative years" if Capital P Pioneer had stuck with their original company name: Fukuin.

Dude! Check out my Fukuin stereo! It's Fukuin awesome!

Ahem. In all seriousness, the company was founded by the son of a missionary and chose to honor his parent & his faith with the name (despite my churlish and puerile joking around).

Nozomu Matsumoto (松本望) was a Japanese businessman and inventor who founded Pioneer Corporation. He was born in Kobe, Japan in 1905, the son of a Christian missionary. In 1936, he founded the Fukuin Shokai Denki Seisakusho company in Osaka, whose name roughly translates to “Blessed Sound Electric Company” or “Gospel Electric Company”, owing to Matsumoto’s Christian faith and belief that his electronic products could help in missionary works.

source: https://hifihalloffame.com/business/pioneer-electronics/

Interestingly, Crown in the US (not to be confused with a later Japanese audio/radio brand also called Crown!) likewise was founded with a missionary, umm... mission. Crown (long based in Elkhart, Indiana and now, of course part of Harman, I mean, Samsung) used the tagline Built Missionary Tough in early advertising for their products, such as their redoubtable tape decks.

 

[mhardy6647]

Of course I realize that my Fukuin Pioneer digression may be a TAD too off-topic.

I'll get me coat...