MoFi SourcePoint 888 Review and Measurements by Erin

[holdingpants01]

IIRC each of the bass drivers is in its own vented enclosure. The midbass/tweeter is in its own sealed enclosure. There was a cutaway view I seen in video awhile back.

That's right, I found it, the way it's split makes it super easy for MoFi to make it a center channel (one hole in different panel and maybe change of a volume on the other) but unfortunately impossible for the end user

 

[Matias]

That would be one big center channel... Totally exagerated imo.
What is wrong about using a SP8 or SP10 sideways? Isn't one of the advantages of coax designs the great vertical dispersion, that sideways turn into great horizontal dispersion? In an HT environment it would probably be high-passed and the sub take duties for the LFE channel, so what is the point of a large center channel? Noone is going to listen 100+ dB full range center channel...

 

[alont]

That would be one big center channel... Totally exagerated imo.
What is wrong about using a SP8 or SP10 sideways? Isn't one of the advantages of coax designs the great vertical dispersion, that sideways turn into great horizontal dispersion? In an HT environment it would probably be high-passed and the sub take duties for the LFE channel, so what is the point of a large center channel? Noone is going to listen 100+ dB full range center channel...

Since the center channel is more demanding than L/R in multichannel content, the same argument could be made for L/Rs, then. What's the point of getting the SP888 if you could just get the SP8 and cross them over with a sub? Might as well argue that the SP888 only make sense if you don't have subwoofer. Sure, if you have a small room (as I do), or don't listen to stuff too loud I tend to agree, but making such a generalization just sounds silly to me.

 

[openvista]

Since the center channel is more demanding than L/R in multichannel content, the same argument could be made for L/Rs, then. What's the point of getting the SP888 if you could just get the SP8 and cross them over with a sub? Might as well argue that the SP888 only make sense if you don't have subwoofer. Sure, if you have a small room (as I do), or don't listen to stuff too loud I tend to agree, but making such a generalization just sounds silly to me.

I'm guessing the biggest impetus for the creation of the SP 888s is that a certain market segment wants a full-range speaker without needing subs -- mainly for purposes of listening to music. A secondary reason would be that the SP 8 and 10 are both somewhat awkwardly large for stand mount (bookshelf) speakers. The 10s especially. So floorstanders are just easier to certain folks because they don't have to worry about them being knocked over or the stands being ugly or finding different stands, etc.

It wasn't because the SP 8 & 10s don't get loud enough. Let's say a listener sits 12ft (~ 4m) from his speakers and places the SP 10s within 4' of a wall. At "max power input" (200W) they will get up to 106 dB per channel!! (source: http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html). Conversely, in that same configuration the 888s will reach 102 dB per channel (same as the SP 8).

I never made a generalization that center speakers should be bookshelf speakers. YOU were the one who said you couldn't abide a bookshelf speaker as a center channel because they don't get loud enough. When I tried to point out that the speakers Erin recommended for this application (SP 8 & 10) did get loud enough, you moved the goalposts to "something, something distortion". Now we're back to loudness again with the wrinkle of room sizes (which applies more to the less sensitive 888s than the 10s).

Your line of reasoning is especially silly in the context of a center speaker for *home theater*. Which means you (or others interested in this discussion) will almost certainly have or should be acquiring a subwoofer or two to take advantage of the LFE sub-channel content. If you were a dedicated 2-channel music enthusiast it might make sense to seek only a full-range speaker. And to top it off, you admitted you have a small room, so the SP 8 would be optimal as it will get plenty loud before compression really sets in. Plus, it's like, what, 1/3rd the price of an SP 888?

 

[Ron Texas]

"This is my top recommendation for a speaker in the $5k/pair budget range. It checks every box I would want checked:" -Erin

You don't get that very often from Erin.

 

[alont]

It would be really cool to see a center channel version of the SP888! What an absolute beast it would be. And assuming a price of 2.5-3 grand it would actually be "reasonably" affordable for its performance class. Just gotta redo the XO and make some changes to the enclosure's design.

I'm guessing the biggest impetus for the creation of the SP 888s is that a certain market segment wants a full-range speaker without needing subs -- mainly for purposes of listening to music. A secondary reason would be that the SP 8 and 10 are both somewhat awkwardly large for stand mount (bookshelf) speakers. The 10s especially. So floorstanders are just easier to certain folks because they don't have to worry about them being knocked over or the stands being ugly or finding different stands, etc.

It wasn't because the SP 8 & 10s don't get loud enough. Let's say a listener sits 12ft (~ 4m) from his speakers and places the SP 10s within 4' of a wall. At "max power input" (200W) they will get up to 106 dB per channel!! (source: http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html). Conversely, in that same configuration the 888s will reach 102 dB per channel (same as the SP 8).

I never made a generalization that center speakers should be bookshelf speakers. YOU were the one who said you couldn't abide a bookshelf speaker as a center channel because they don't get loud enough. When I tried to point out that the speakers Erin recommended for this application (SP 8 & 10) did get loud enough, you moved the goalposts to "something, something distortion". Now we're back to loudness again with the wrinkle of room sizes (which applies more to the less sensitive 888s than the 10s).

Your line of reasoning is especially silly in the context of a center speaker for *home theater*. Which means you (or others interested in this discussion) will almost certainly have or should be acquiring a subwoofer or two to take advantage of the LFE sub-channel content. If you were a dedicated 2-channel music enthusiast it might make sense to seek only a full-range speaker. And to top it off, you admitted you have a small room, so the SP 8 would be optimal as it will get plenty loud before compression really sets in. Plus, it's like, what, 1/3rd the price of an SP 888?

Ignoring the fact that a speaker's impedance varies at different frequencies and you can't just plug in the nominal impedance value and expect it to show accurate results for the entire frequency range - In your imaginary scenario, pumping 200 watts continously into the SP10 would result in an output level of 114 db / 1 meter away in an anechoic environment. Look at the distortion measurements at 86 and 96 dB. Now imagine what those would look like at 114 dB. I'm willing to bet compression or irreversible damage would set in long before you even get to that level. Why do you keep insisting on relying on that silly "max power input" spec? It's vague at best and practically useless. Please read up on it a bit...

A speaker's true "maximum output" is determined by how loudly it can play while staying within your desired performance envelope. I never said I would never abide with a bookshelf center speaker, in fact in my surround setup I don't even have a center speaker yet. I was simply rebutting the generalizing statements you and others have made in previous posts, which insinuated that a center channel speaker somehow has lower output requirements compared to L/R speakers in a multichannel setup.

Allow me to repeat my assertion - If you have a multichannel setup and determined that you need the SP888 over the SP10/8 for L/R duty due to performance reasons, then using the SP8/10 as your center channel is nonsensical given it is even more demanding than the L/R channels. That is all. I hope it makes things clearer.

 

[openvista]

Let me remind you what you said that sent us down this rabbit hole:

People typically shell out more for towers due to their enhanced output capacity. Typical surround content demands the most from the center channel, so having a center speaker with less output capacity than your left/right speakers doesn’t make much sense. [underline by openvista]

That is a purely *quantitative* argument. Which is why I replied quantitatively by calculating the max SPLs of each speaker in question using the information published by Erin. You said that "irreversible damage would set in long before" max input power of 150W or 200W was achieved. Yes, I'm sure when people destroy their speakers with their 50W or 100W amps that information wouldn't get loose on social media. If anything, the actual power ratings are higher but MoFi has built in a margin of error so they don't have to tell people they're screwed or pony up for replacement.

So then you changed directions and suggested you or some theoretical person can hear the <1 dB to maybe 2 dB compression and various modulation (phase) differences from 80 - 20 kHz at 96 or 102 dB when comparing the floorstanders to the stand mounts! Good luck proving that! Even Erin hedges on the audibility of his various distortion measurements after he had a long chat with Earl Geddes.

I'm assuming you actually want a center speaker at some point rather than to theorize why it "doesn't make much sense" for others to buy the ones recommended by the reviewer at the top of this thread who has actually heard and measured all 3 speakers. So why not just order the SP 8? If it works out, you've saved yourself a bunch of cash. If you feel something is missing you could always trade it in for an 888.

 

[alont]

Let me remind you what you said that sent us down this rabbit hole:



That is a purely *quantitative* argument. Which is why I replied quantitatively by calculating the max SPLs of each speaker in question using the information published by Erin. You said that "irreversible damage would set in long before" max input power of 150W or 200W was achieved. Yes, I'm sure when people destroy their speakers with their 50W or 100W amps that information wouldn't get loose on social media. If anything, the actual power ratings are higher but MoFi has built in a margin of error so they don't have to tell people they're screwed or pony up for replacement.

So then you changed directions and suggested you or some theoretical person can hear the <1 dB to maybe 2 dB compression and various modulation (phase) differences from 80 - 20 kHz at 96 or 102 dB when comparing the floorstanders to the stand mounts! Good luck proving that! Even Erin hedges on the audibility of his various distortion measurements after he had a long chat with Earl Geddes.

I'm assuming you actually want a center speaker at some point rather than to theorize why it "doesn't make much sense" for others to buy the ones recommended by the reviewer at the top of this thread who has actually heard and measured all 3 speakers. So why not just order the SP 8? If it works out, you've saved yourself a bunch of cash. If you feel something is missing you could always trade it in for an 888.

Look, I think I did a pretty good job explaining why the SP888 have better output capacity than the SP8 or SP10, as well as why the center channel is more demanding compared to L/R.

I think there's also a bit of a gap between our understanding of sound reproduction fundamentals and it seems like you are interested more in arguing semantics over understanding the science behind my arguments, so I will bow out of this discussion for now. I wish you a great weekend.

 

[jdbob]

I was afraid that would happen. UPS Freight plans on taking a week to get the 6 hours from Portland Oregon to here. So, 11 days total, assuming they don't delay it any further.

 

[JohNChen]

Im considering about this speaker and Revel f228be too.I want to use it for HT.It seems that this speaker's distortion is lower than 228be,don't know how it sounds like.

 

[RickS]

Im considering about this speaker and Revel f228be too.I want to use it for HT.It seems that this speaker's distortion is lower than 228be,don't know how it sounds like.

For a home theater, this seems like a great speaker. But with subwoofers, probably to do not need a big tower. Would consider Philharmonic HT towers or maybe the SourcePoint 8s. Both are hard to find currently though.

P.S.

For a more average US room, the Ascend Sierra line is worth considering. Notably if you want to do timbre matching between all the channels

 

[RickS]

That's right, I found it, the way it's split makes it super easy for MoFi to make it a center channel (one hole in different panel and maybe change of a volume on the other) but unfortunately impossible for the end user

View attachment 380495

Along with the pro style woofers, really drives up the volume. Implies that a SourcePoint 88 may be in the offing. The 888 is massive. Am pretty sure my wife would stop it before it got in the house!

 

[Koeitje]

Those seem like great speakers, but "MoFi" is a ridiculous name for a company selling upscale $5,000 speakers. Can you imagine hosting a party with your lawyer and doctor friends, someone asks you what those nice speakers are, and you have to explain "They're MoFi, like hi-fi, but there's mo' of it, get it"?

And it's dated. SWR made a bass guitar amplifier called "Mo' Bass" around the turn of the century.

It is nice to see a company moving back to decent-sized woofers instead of trying to squeeze bass out of infinite arrays of 6-inchers.

MoFi is so well known in the audio world that it makes perfect sense. Who doesn't know about MFSL remasters? They could have spelled it out, but having "Mobile" in the name would make even less sense.

 

[jhaider]

For a home theater, this seems like a great speaker. But with subwoofers, probably to do not need a big tower. Would consider Philharmonic HT towers or maybe the SourcePoint 8s. Both are hard to find currently though.

Dirac ART may change that assessment, as more sources with strong response down to the 1st mode region can only be of benefit when all sources can be used.

Along with the pro style woofers, really drives up the volume. Implies that a SourcePoint 88 may be in the offing. The 888 is massive. Am pretty sure my wife would stop it before it got in the house!

It doesn’t present as especially hulking in person, IMO, based on AXPONA. They’re narrower and shorter than our Revel Gem2’s on pedestal stands. Deeper, obviously. But the tapered cabinets help with that. Honestly if the 888s had been a product back then we may well have bought them instead of searching for Gem2’s. They’re really good, and look great.

 

[RickS]

Dirac ART may change that assessment, as more sources with strong response down to the 1st mode region can only be of benefit when all sources can be used.



It doesn’t present as especially hulking in person, IMO, based on AXPONA. They’re narrower and shorter than our Revel Gem2’s on pedestal stands. Deeper, obviously. But the tapered cabinets help with that. Honestly if the 888s had been a product back then we may well have bought them instead of searching for Gem2’s. They’re really good, and look great.

Probably should have disclaimed on my room size as a beefier speaker can help in a large room.

Looks are more subjective ofc and still would not get past my wife even in a bigger house!

 

[RickS]

Rick, how many DIY speakers have you built? And your wife would complain about a tower?
She knows you have the disease. You just have to promise to sell another pair.
Sorry, couldn't help myself. I know the drill.

Lol, already used the “I’ll sell a pair” pass to get the CBTs.

Our HT (family room) has 3 systems currently. A 7.1 home theater with BG towers, a 2.1 system with CBT24s and the spin table for my DIY speakers.

My wife really has been a gem actually but I have to be a good boy as she is threatening my speaker space when we downsize. She knows my hobby is a chronic one and hopes I can tame it. The nest is empty and after two weddings this year, the plan is to sell the place in the spring. If the kids don’t take my excess audio, expect I will be doing clearance sale then!

 

[Robert-Hifi]

In his review of the SourcePoint 888 Erin also refers to the KEF Reference 1 Meta and KEF Blade Two Meta.
He says both are a little bit more narrow with their soundstage radiation width than the SourcePoint 888 based on the Contour Plots that he always shows in his video reviews.
But when I look at the Polar "Globe" Plots both KEF's seem wider in radiation???

 

[tmtomh]

In his review of the SourcePoint 888 Erin also refers to the KEF Reference 1 Meta and KEF Blade Two Meta.
He says both are a little bit more narrow with their soundstage radiation width than the SourcePoint 888 based on the Contour Plots that he always shows in his video reviews.
But when I look at the Polar "Globe" Plots both KEF's seem wider in radiation???

I see why you have that impression, but I'd offer two thoughts:

1. On the contour plots the SP888 is overall quite similar if you look at the -6dB point. But if you look at the 0 to -3dB range, the SP888 is a bit more uneven than the KEFs above 1kHz, but it's also a bit "thicker"/wider than the Blade 2 Meta above about 2.5kHz and than the R1 above about 1.3kHz. My guess would be that Erin's assessment of this is based in part on his listening impressions, because those contour plots seem to show that the 888 might sound wider in radiation or might not.

2. The polar globe plots are not normalized. The 888 looks a lot narrower because all the SPL ranges are lower - it has less energy everywhere, not just in the direct and off-axis dispersion areas. Normalization would change the color-coding of those polar plots to reference 0dB, -3dB, -6dB, etc based on the speaker's top measured SPL level rather than an absolute SPL level.

 

[MGJ]

Do the SP888's have the same side shape as the SP8? They gently curve and get narrower at the rear.

 

[nothingman]

Do the SP888's have the same side shape as the SP8? They gently curve and get narrower at the rear.

Yes. Have seen that in some of the video reviews.