MoFi SourcePoint 888 Review and Measurements by Erin

[cavedriver]

View attachment 445660
This might be the blockage we are running into

I'm sorry, but I made a statement in US dollars, my location is the US, the website is hosted in the US, and you quoted my statement and then responded in "dollars". Your location is not indicated, you did not say anything about the currency, and the only metric I had to explain your shift in frame of reference was the price you used for the SP888 at $11k, which I attributed to the same unexplained pricing source. When I attempted to clarify, again still in US dollars, you didn't seek to clarify or try to close the gap in miscommunication at all, and instead stayed in whatever currency you are working in. This is not an "American" problem, this is just communicating effectively and trying to move the conversation forward. Only when I specifically reached out and tried to close the gap did you acknowledge the confusion, and then with an insulting meme. All this has done is wasted time and distracted from the real point here that 1) if the V10 is priced at ~$10k and the Revel F328Be sells for ~$12k when it's on sale, then we have reasonable competitors. I admit that I expect the V10 to sell for less than that, and the reliable price on the Revel is really a bit higher, but they are still in the ballpark, and certainly the F228Be could be a very close competitor in price.

 

[Penelinfi]

I'm sorry, but I made a statement in US dollars, my location is the US, the website is hosted in the US, and you quoted my statement and then responded in "dollars". Your location is not indicated, you did not say anything about the currency, and the only metric I had to explain your shift in frame of reference was the price you used for the SP888 at $11k, which I attributed to the same unexplained pricing source. When I attempted to clarify, again still in US dollars, you didn't seek to clarify or try to close the gap in miscommunication at all, and instead stayed in whatever currency you are working in. This is not an "American" problem, this is just communicating effectively and trying to move the conversation forward. Only when I specifically reached out and tried to close the gap did you acknowledge the confusion, and then with an insulting meme. All this has done is wasted time and distracted from the real point here that 1) if the V10 is priced at ~$10k and the Revel F328Be sells for ~$12k when it's on sale, then we have reasonable competitors. I admit that I expect the V10 to sell for less than that, and the reliable price on the Revel is really a bit higher, but they are still in the ballpark, and certainly the F228Be could be a very close competitor in price.

I'm bringing light to the fact that it's not the same everywhere. The website can be hosted anywhere - but it's open to the world. Hence the meme. Is it insulting? Or is it true?
It doesn't waste any more time than people going to try and find out these Revel and KEF sales and finding out they actually don't exist outside the US except if you get a demo model that usually comes in the most boring colour. I'd have a hard time spending $20k on a black f328be. The design looks like something you'd be able to get at $3k tbh

 

[Pearljam5000]

What's the point of that switch?why not use an EQ instead?

 

[Mart68]

View attachment 446401
What's the point of that switch?why not use an EQ instead?

Lots of people don't have EQ and don't want it - why limit your market? It could be a deal-breaker for the sake of a switch and a resistor.

 

[Penelinfi]

It could be slightly different than an EQ if it only affects the tweeter; even though being a coaxial, there shouldn't be a huge difference between full speaker EQ and just the tweeter filter.

 

[jdbob]

What's the point of that switch?why not use an EQ instead

If I heard Andrew correctly in one of his interviews it only changes the tweeter level plus and minus 1dB. Doesn't seem like much.

 

[Richard G]

View attachment 446401
What's the point of that switch?why not use an EQ instead?

Effectively it is an EQ switch

 

[cavedriver]

I'm bringing light to the fact that it's not the same everywhere. The website can be hosted anywhere - but it's open to the world. Hence the meme. Is it insulting? Or is it true?
It doesn't waste any more time than people going to try and find out these Revel and KEF sales and finding out they actually don't exist outside the US except if you get a demo model that usually comes in the most boring colour. I'd have a hard time spending $20k on a black f328be. The design looks like something you'd be able to get at $3k tbh

Your point would be valid IF you had stated at any point that you were talking about another market and that the situation is different in that market. You didn't. Of course the situation is different in other markets, and for many niche markets the relative price of these products is almost meaningless, especially when you start talking about $20k speakers that lack good distributor representation, or speakers made in Europe vs China when sold in Europe vs the US, where the tariff structures result in significantly different prices. Again, you didn't make that point.

 

[Penelinfi]

Your point would be valid IF you had stated at any point that you were talking about another market and that the situation is different in that market. You didn't. Of course the situation is different in other markets, and for many niche markets the relative price of these products is almost meaningless, especially when you start talking about $20k speakers that lack good distributor representation, or speakers made in Europe vs China when sold in Europe vs the US, where the tariff structures result in significantly different prices. Again, you didn't make that point.

The general assumption that it's the US unless stated otherwise is why pic

 

[fbirch]

I picked up a pair of the 888’s on Fri and unboxed them Sun night for an initial listen. Very happy with their sound quality, neutrality and overall look. Initial impressions:

Very neutral sound, not exaggerated on either end of the spectrum.

I only got to play with positioning briefly and my impressions here are solely by ear (no measurements yet). They don’t seem very fussy about placement in my listening area. I can hear more bass as they get closer to the wall, but they remained non-boomy sounding even with the back of the speaker one foot from the front wall. Hopefully I'll get the chance to do some positional fine tuning with the aid of REW in the days ahead.

They look great. The walnut veneer is furniture grade with a beautiful grain and a lightly sealed finish that preserves the natural texture of the wood. They don’t look as if they were dunked in a vat of high-gloss plastidip, which is a welcome departure from some current offerings.

I thought they might be too big and dominate the space but that isn’t my impression after seeing them in my living room. The listed width and depth correspond to the base platform. The speaker cabinets themselves are not that big, although they do have a slight retro chunkiness to them. They remind me of my last floorstanders, which were Boston Acoustics T1000. I loved those speakers and missed them the entire time I lived with satellite/sub HT setups.

They like power and volume. I typically listen at a much lower volume than what I see others posting here. These speakers seem to liven up at a slightly higher volume than I normally use. I found ~70 dB average at the listening position to sound better than my normal ~65 dB. I’m driving them with a 200 wpc Mac amp and the volume setting where they start to sound really sweet had the power meter needles were bouncing farther to the right than I normally see, peaks beyond the 20 wpc hash marks and the scale is logarithmic.

My overall initial impressions are very positive all the way around. I’ll do some tweaking to position and perhaps some small room treatments, then will post some pictures and REW data. It’d be great to see how other owners have integrated them into their listening rooms and measurement data before/after room correction.

 

[Richard G]

I picked up a pair of the 888’s on Fri and unboxed them Sun night for an initial listen. Very happy with their sound quality, neutrality and overall look. Initial impressions:

Very neutral sound, not exaggerated on either end of the spectrum.

I only got to play with positioning briefly and my impressions here are solely by ear (no measurements yet). They don’t seem very fussy about placement in my listening area. I can hear more bass as they get closer to the wall, but they remained non-boomy sounding even with the back of the speaker one foot from the front wall. Hopefully I'll get the chance to do some positional fine tuning with the aid of REW in the days ahead.

They look great. The walnut veneer is furniture grade with a beautiful grain and a lightly sealed finish that preserves the natural texture of the wood. They don’t look as if they were dunked in a vat of high-gloss plastidip, which is a welcome departure from some current offerings.

I thought they might be too big and dominate the space but that isn’t my impression after seeing them in my living room. The listed width and depth correspond to the base platform. The speaker cabinets themselves are not that big, although they do have a slight retro chunkiness to them. They remind me of my last floorstanders, which were Boston Acoustics T1000. I loved those speakers and missed them the entire time I lived with satellite/sub HT setups.

They like power and volume. I typically listen at a much lower volume than what I see others posting here. These speakers seem to liven up at a slightly higher volume than I normally use. I found ~70 dB average at the listening position to sound better than my normal ~65 dB. I’m driving them with a 200 wpc Mac amp and the volume setting where they start to sound really sweet had the power meter needles were bouncing farther to the right than I normally see, peaks beyond the 20 wpc hash marks and the scale is logarithmic.

My overall initial impressions are very positive all the way around. I’ll do some tweaking to position and perhaps some small room treatments, then will post some pictures and REW data. It’d be great to see how other owners have integrated them into their listening rooms and measurement data before/after room correction.

You touch on a number of useful aspects that few reviewers do; succinctly and straightforward. EXCELLENT post

 

[cavedriver]

They like power and volume. I typically listen at a much lower volume than what I see others posting here. These speakers seem to liven up at a slightly higher volume than I normally use. I found ~70 dB average at the listening position to sound better than my normal ~65 dB. I’m driving them with a 200 wpc Mac amp and the volume setting where they start to sound really sweet had the power meter needles were bouncing farther to the right than I normally see, peaks beyond the 20 wpc hash marks and the scale is logarithmic.

I noticed the same thing about both the SP10 and the Elac DBR-62. Whatever it is about Andrew's designs, such as perhaps the bass alignments he uses, his designs seem to really love power, as in they make you want to turn them up, not that they aren't dynamic at low volumes, it's just that they are soooo good loud. Probably points to his target response slope or some other measurable aspect I just haven't picked up on yet.

 

[Richard G]

I noticed the same thing about both the SP10 and the Elac DBR-62. Whatever it is about Andrew's designs, such as perhaps the bass alignments he uses, his designs seem to really love power, as in they make you want to turn them up, not that they aren't dynamic at low volumes, it's just that they are soooo good loud. Probably points to his target response slope or some other measurable aspect I just haven't picked up on yet.

A couple of simple facts explain it. Most of us at ASR know that as volume increases, distortion increases.

By how much? of course varies.

Other focus: speaker SQ has a fair number of aspects to it, and most of us tend to focus much more on things like frequency response and imaging. the ability to sound better when it’s louder isn’t often in the centre of the radar. I’d guess 95% of us haven’t focused on it. … So I suspect most of us only have a relatively modest sense of just what speakers can be capable of in this respect. By how much they vary

That’s perspective

AJ senior at TAD for several years. In that market, the ability to play loud - and still very clean - is central

A well tuned bass alignment helps … but only in the lower half of the bass

Some speakers to do this much better than others because of a few design/ engineering aspects of the drivers.

I’m out of time, but if you read the descriptions of the better or best model lines of drivers made by a number of manufacturers which are used in pro audio the same engineering features always come up. Possibly most easily found in the descriptions of Acoustic Energy drivers. And the higher end of BMS

 

[cavedriver]

A couple of simple facts explain it. Most of us at ASR know that as volume increases, distortion increases.

By how much? of course varies.

Other focus: speaker SQ has a fair number of aspects to it, and most of us tend to focus much more on things like frequency response and imaging. the ability to sound better when it’s louder isn’t often in the centre of the radar. I’d guess 95% of us haven’t focused on it. … So I suspect most of us only have a relatively modest sense of just what speakers can be capable of in this respect. By how much they vary

That’s perspective

AJ senior at TAD for several years. In that market, the ability to play loud - and still very clean - is central

A well tuned bass alignment helps … but only in the lower half of the bass

Some speakers to do this much better than others because of a few design/ engineering aspects of the drivers.

I’m out of time, but if you read the descriptions of the better or best model lines of drivers made by a number of manufacturers which are used in pro audio the same engineering features always come up. Possibly most easily found in the descriptions of Acoustic Energy drivers. And the higher end of BMS

am I stupid? If you are going to talk down to someone ("most of us at ASR"? Do you think I am not most people, or lack that basic understanding? I shouldn't have to point this out) at least try to be specific with some answers. For example, are you suggesting that AJ's designs have more or less distortion than their peers? For example, the Linton's have very similar levels of distortion and yet do not share the SP10's love of volume (I have spent significant amounts of time listening to both and rather like both). Yes, the Linton's have a little more distortion here, a little less there, but the differences are not clear cut. In summary, I see no specific or useful content in your response. Sorry.

 

[fbirch]

I noticed the same thing about both the SP10 and the Elac DBR-62. Whatever it is about Andrew's designs, such as perhaps the bass alignments he uses, his designs seem to really love power, as in they make you want to turn them up, not that they aren't dynamic at low volumes, it's just that they are soooo good loud. Probably points to his target response slope or some other measurable aspect I just haven't picked up on yet.

The plot below certainly doesn't explain how the 888's manage to play so cleanly at higher volume, but it at least demonstrates that they do. Erin's comment on this result in his review was "Wow." Other YouTube reviewers tested them at 113 dB and were impressed they stayed clean up to that level.

I'm wondering if there is just a natural tendency for most listeners to like higher volume, so speakers that can play loudly while staying clean make a big impact. I tend to listen at a lot lower volume than most, but there's no doubt that the 888's reward with great dynamics if you give them just a bit of extra power. As you say, they are still quite nice at low volume, but they are really good with a bit more SPL.

 

[Richard G]

am I stupid? If you are going to talk down to someone ("most of us at ASR"? Do you think I am not most people, or lack that basic understanding? I shouldn't have to point this out) at least try to be specific with some answers. For example, are you suggesting that AJ's designs have more or less distortion than their peers? For example, the Linton's have very similar levels of distortion and yet do not share the SP10's love of volume (I have spent significant amounts of time listening to both and rather like both). Yes, the Linton's have a little more distortion here, a little less there, but the differences are not clear cut. In summary, I see no specific or useful content in your response. Sorry.

cave dweller,

Wtf? You totally got the wrong end of the stick

>”If you are going to talk down to someone

What words gave you that idea??

> ("most of us at ASR"? Do you think I am not most people,

No one is, mate.

> or lack that basic understanding?

I’m replied to you, but it’s not exactly a private conversation between two people.

Because this is a forum, and more so because this is a popular thread … many readers - I deliberately answered in a general way, pitched to what I thought would be a mid-level of knowledge
It was not aimed at you.

I’ve run out of time- and interest, to respond to you any more.
Now I am being personal
From both the posts of yours I’ve read, you’ve been either taking a guess that could only explain part of the problem, or throwing a wobbly
Two black marks out of two, this is the last time I will respond to you

Adios, amigo

 

[Richard G]

How many watts should we/ can we use ?
Recap: the spec maximum is 200

I cannot recall a case in audio where we are so fortunate to to have a designer who’s both done a number of interviews … and is quite frank

AJ was asked what amplifier he uses.
He also enjoys the way they play when pumped. He mentioned an amp with around 200 watts.

But said he much prefers (a Classe, respect) which outputs 600.
He said (I believe with a grin) that the woofers occasionally bottom, but apparently their ability to boogie was irresistible. Cos he didn’t mention any caveat eg don’t try this at home

There’s confidence in your product

So if, rather than a 100-200 watter per the book, we use or get a say, 400-600 watter - OTBE, subject to WAF, neighbours, more hearing loss - it’s more fun/ worth doing

Better still, bi-amp with a woofer amp with not high watts, but excellent bass control

on the woofers, for years, for bass 200 Bryston watts beat most other 200 watts

500 Bryston watts would be ideal; but big $

Now we’ve got eg Purifi and Hypex


888s with
woofers powered by Purifi/ Hypex
+ the coaxials if not powered by the same (Purifi/ Hypex) by a top 200 watter
For the money, very few would get closer to audio nirvana

 

[Robert-Hifi]

The plot below certainly doesn't explain how the 888's manage to play so cleanly at higher volume, but it at least demonstrates that they do. Erin's comment on this result in his review was "Wow." Other YouTube reviewers tested them at 113 dB and were impressed they stayed clean up to that level.

I'm wondering if there is just a natural tendency for most listeners to like higher volume, so speakers that can play loudly while staying clean make a big impact. I tend to listen at a lot lower volume than most, but there's no doubt that the 888's reward with great dynamics if you give them just a bit of extra power. As you say, they are still quite nice at low volume, but they are really good with a bit more SPL.

Too bad that the "Dynamic Range (Instantaneous Compression Test)" graph stops at 40Hz, would have loved to see how it performs to 30Hz.

According to the measurements done by Hi-Fi News:

"The ports are both tuned to 31Hz and are broadly free of pipe or cabinet modes, the most obvious at 615Hz (–24dB). The two 200mm paper-coned bass drivers operate between 40Hz-160Hz (–6dB), leaving the ports to push the diffraction-correction bass extension down to a very creditable 32Hz (–6dB re. 200Hz)."

 

[fbirch]

Too bad that the "Dynamic Range (Instantaneous Compression Test)" graph stops at 40Hz, would have loved to see how it performs to 30Hz.

According to the measurements done by Hi-Fi News:

"The ports are both tuned to 31Hz and are broadly free of pipe or cabinet modes, the most obvious at 615Hz (–24dB). The two 200mm paper-coned bass drivers operate between 40Hz-160Hz (–6dB), leaving the ports to push the diffraction-correction bass extension down to a very creditable 32Hz (–6dB re. 200Hz)."

I recall another review where Erin tried high-passing them at 80 Hz and they showed no improvement to their already-great performance, compared to driving them with a full-range signal. It seems the 888 is a speaker you can drive with a full-range signal - even a high-power full-range signal - with no downside. That was a very appealing attribute to me. It simplified my setup, given the overall system configuration I'm using.

 

[Puddingbuks]

I recall another review where Erin tried high-passing them at 80 Hz and they showed no improvement to their already-great performance, compared to driving them with a full-range signal. It seems the 888 is a speaker you can drive with a full-range signal - even a high-power full-range signal - with no downside. That was a very appealing attribute to me. It simplified my setup, given the overall system configuration I'm using.

You want the V10.