JP
Major Contributor
I've no need to be right and am fine with being not right. Handwaving isn't going to convince anyone, though.
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Modern Record Playback?
- Thread starter mppix
- Start date
I've no need to be right and am fine with being not right. Handwaving isn't going to convince anyone, though.
- Thread Starter
- #182
I always thought it is even more complex.
If I understand well, Stylus tend to not make a perfect contact with the groove wall and different stylus shapes make contacts at different points.
Another questions is also how stiff the cantilever actually is. A stiff cantilever (as opposed to a spring-mass system) is needed to transmits a vibration from the needle to the transducer "accurately".
What I can say is that Grado told me that, specific to their cartridges, the low output versions are able to reproduce finer detail than the higher output versions, and while I do not recall the technical details, it was related to the lower mass of the coil, materials and how wound, and for that reason the low output versions are preferred, assuming that one has a phono pre with sufficient gain and low noise. Why this is the case, of course, I have no knowledge, but I do know that this is what the manufacturer told me. I have had both low and high output Grado cartridges, and the difference is easily audible, not dramatic, but audible. The low output versions do provide more detail. The willingness of Grado to provide this information (and the technical detail that I do not presently recall) was refreshing and I very much appreciated the information, as it is an important purchase, not to mention somewhat costly. I should also mention that their cartridges are very well matched to the Technics tonearm as to compliance, weight, mounting, and alignment.
Whether this is true for other manufacturers' cartridges is another question entirely.
The question initially (for me) was whether to get the low or high output version of the Reference3 cartridge. They both have the same boron cantilevers and the same tip, the difference is in the coil and mass of the motor. So yes, all of the considerations that you mention are important, but the point (at least with Grado), is that all other things being equal, the low output versions are preferable. I don't know if other manufacturers offer both low and high output versions of their MM cartridges. Somehow I doubt it, but I could be mistaken.
Well, I digitalized tracks with my MM and MC cartridge and then listened with foobar ABX method and I finded what I said.
Obviously (as I also said) that tiny difference goes in a delicate mechanical system (tonearm mass, cartridge compliance, turntable settings / quality, blah blah).
But, that's my experience and my opinion with more than 40 years listening to vinyl. Is not the same as a digital component, when everything can be seen as a "black box".
The same turntable/cartridge can have a different behavior (very different) in your system if you have a misaligned cartridge or a bad leveled base, a wood floor without proper acoustical care, etc.
So ... many people can say many things ... you need to have your own experience and people with real knowledge to get useful information.
Yes, I agree with everything that you say. With LP records, all of what you said is relevant, turntable isolation, alignment, all of that. But simplifying somewhat, cartridges can be expensive, and when it is time to make the decision, we can be aware of all the variables in our home situation, and yet, to make the decision, the information from the manufacturer should be helpful, and even more helpful, a return privilege if the quality of audio in our home is unsatisfactory, because in the end, the audio system has to sound right for the individual, and all the measurements in the world are meaningless to me if I don't like the way it sounds. To me, that is part of the enjoyment of this hobby. There are no hard and fast rules. What annoys me is when one cannot get a straight answer to a simple question from the manufacturer. I was pleased that Grado gave me the answer to the question I had about their cartridges.
JP
Major Contributor
Way more complex. Through the groove is plenty uniform top to bottom.
What was claimed is just a different version of 'MCs more accurately track the groove, giving more detail, because they have lower moving mass'. Which is a simplistic and inaccurate representation that is found on practically every cartridge manufacturer website and is parroted endlessly. Moving mass plays a significant factor, but we're talking about systems with complex interactions so one can't make such summary claims with attributions to mechanisms that are unlikely to play a role.
This is a really interesting read: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/cartridge-dynamic-behaviour.320026/ as is https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/mechanical-resonance-in-mms.303389/
@BJL ^ is relevant to your comment as well, as is the linked information. I'd be curious what controls were in place and what was done to isolate moving mass as the defining variable in your comparisons.
JP
Major Contributor
Another great read recently posted:
www.audiosciencereview.com
Toole Blind Cartridge Comparison
From Audio Scene Canada August 1980, a blind screen comparison by Floyd Toole of 2 MCs and a MM which I decided to add under its own thread rather than at least 2 others to which I might have added it.
www.audiosciencereview.com
