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Modern Measurement Tools Are Tricking Audiophiles Into Trusting Bad Data, Warns Veteran Speaker Designer

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Sokel said:
If TAD was his as well they are very good as well and if I got it right they are similar to Sourcepoint.
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Are the TAD his?
 
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I read a little bit... This was pretty funny and kind of related to some to the comments in this thread :p

"AJ: You have a hierarchy: a mathematician, a physicist (which is a failed mathematician), and an engineer (which is a failed physicist)."
 
Interesting interview, you can perceive his desire to experiment and at the same time his knowledge and the path to follow.
 
a4eaudio said:
I read a little bit... This was pretty funny and kind of related to some to the comments in this thread :p

"AJ: You have a hierarchy: a mathematician, a physicist (which is a failed mathematician), and an engineer (which is a failed physicist)."
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Yes, I had some as well but I stopped when he mentioned published papers about this huge experiment they did simulating rooms at the anechoic chamber using lots of hand-made (!) uni-Q, current drive-active drivers and a ton of DSP so to find them.
No luck so far.
 
rdenney said:
Amir's branding is all about measurement
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At the wrong one at that... My branding should be understanding of all the technologies I review as to be critical in how I test them. The other side of course wants to pigeon hole me into measurements and then proceed to say they are less useful than listening.

Reminds me of a story.... A photographer visits his hunter friend. The hunter looks at all of his lenses and camera equipment and says, "boy those must take really great pictures." Photographer points to his collection of rifles and says, "boy, they must be really good at hunting!" Measurements are tools to verify our understanding of technology. They are not an end to themselves.
 
amirm said:
At the wrong one at that... My branding should be understanding of all the technologies I review as to be critical in how I test them. The other side of course wants to pigeon hole me into measurements and then proceed to say they are less useful than listening.

Reminds me of a story.... A photographer visits his hunter friend. The hunter looks at all of his lenses and camera equipment and says, "boy those must take really great pictures." Photographer points to his collection of rifles and says, "boy, they must be really good at hunting!" Measurements are tools to verify our understanding of technology. They are not an end to themselves.
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I agree Amir. I have been a skier since age ~3.5 when I started on old dried out bare wood long antique skis with dry old leather bindings that I found in the dirt basement of a 125 year old house in a ex gold rush town. I stood at the Bank of Montreal corner in a small BC ski town next to a great ski mountain and hitchhiked to the mountain ~3 miles everyday to go skiing from age 4 onwards by myself (We all did that back then at that age in that city.) I always had the worst gear at the mountain and froze with the worst clothing too. Skiing meant the world to me, nothing else mattered as much and gave me independence from my horrible family. I skied my heart out and was a great child skier and became a expert adult skier. Now I look at the gear and think I can ski expert with poor gear and poor clothing and the gear does not ski itself. It takes a great skier or a great electrical engineer to make this stuff all make sense and do what needs to be done. Never forget that Amir, you are a very intelligent man and you are the reason ASR is here and you make the measurements and they don't make/take themselves.
 
i was recently in the large anechoic chamber of DTU where AJ did the huge setup with the 32 speakers and the chair hovering in the middle. There are still reminiscences of the setup. I sent Amdrew some pics and he told me how toughit had been to get working. We found some of the parts in the basement
 
To my understanding the Sourcepoints are excellent performers in terms of measured performance (and reviews, for what that's worth).

To use an imperfect analogy, Newtonian physics does not precisely or accurately explain the world, but you can still build a perfectly good bridge with it. Andrew Jones builds some pretty darned good bridges.
 
kyuu said:
True, but AJ has also had some duds. Like basically all his coaxial designs before the Spurcepoint as far as I can recall.
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Heh. I've had a few duds myself. I'm glad there's no Amir evaluating the work that I do :cool:

Rick "those pesky constraints" Denney
 
tmtomh said:
To use an imperfect analogy, Newtonian physics does not precisely or accurately explain the world, but you can still build a perfectly good bridge with it. Andrew Jones builds some pretty darned good bridges.
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At bridge scales it works well enough, which is all an engineer wants or needs. ;)
 
amirm said:
At the wrong one at that... My branding should be understanding of all the technologies I review as to be critical in how I test them. The other side of course wants to pigeon hole me into measurements and then proceed to say they are less useful than listening.

Reminds me of a story.... A photographer visits his hunter friend. The hunter looks at all of his lenses and camera equipment and says, "boy those must take really great pictures." Photographer points to his collection of rifles and says, "boy, they must be really good at hunting!" Measurements are tools to verify our understanding of technology. They are not an end to themselves.
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Of course. But if you made a pronouncement about the quality of an audio product, and didn't provide measurements to back it up, don't you think you would still be undermining your brand? So, it's not all of your brand, but it's a big part of it.

In my own line of work, I have been a huge proponent of a culture of performance measurement, based on articulated objectives to be attained. In no way does that make me any less able to devise approaches to attain those objectives, and nobody doubts that. The measurement is the validation that the objectives are being attained. They are not the objective in and of themselves, or shouldn't be.

My own supporting story: In my field, we have semi-annual meetings to report on research. Every January, we discuss what we want to cover that summer. Several times over the years, I suggested a workshop on objectives, and the crowd would enthusiastically respond, "yeah, Rick, let's have a workshop on performance measurement! Great idea!" Sheesh! We had several workshops on performance measurement and I ended up having to work with colleagues and our own researchers to come up with a way to describe and eventually measure a taxonomy of objectives.

Rick "the difference between the gozintas and the gozouttas, to use EE terms" Denney
 
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Well, this was posted an hour ago.

1760479565202.png


Context: @charlielaub posted the Headphone Sty article on his FB page and a few people replied, including Andrew Jones himself.
 
Keith_W said:
Well, this was posted an hour ago.

View attachment 483172

Context: @charlielaub posted the Headphone Sty article on his FB page and a few people replied, including Andrew Jones himself.
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Thank you for posting it and am glad he wrote that but strongly doubt it will change the behaviour of such sites, so the only meaningful thing we can do is to try to not give them any attention in the future.
 
rdenney said:
Just a note to add that someone may be extremely educated and qualified in an area, and still purposely avoid any discussion of their technical approach in a media interview, if that hasn't been the key to their branding. Amir's branding is all about measurement, but Mr. Jones's branding is more guru-oriented, and maybe he doesn't want to expose his engineering methodology in a media interview. I have no idea one way or the other, but I would not make assumptions about his methods based on what he says publicly about them.

His Pioneer BS22LR speakers, at a hundred bucks for the pair, are pretty decent. He had to make some compromises, of course, but they were reasonable and for the near-field application I use them for they are pretty good. I think there was some serious engineering in those speakers--I doubt he would have wanted to spend two years doing trial and error for the money Pioneer was paying him.

Rick "doesn't always disclose his own methods" Denney
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This is the opposite of Occam’s razor lol
 
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